AOW vs GUE Fundamentals

[PfcAJ]

Do AOW to get on a boat and do 'advanced' dives. Do GUE Fundamentals if you want to learn the GUE system.

Totally different courses with different goals and methods.

 

[eelnoraa]

Not even remotely close in quality, especially when you consider benefit vs cost.

My GUE fundie was 10+ hours a day, 5.5 day class. The 0.5 day was a 8 hours day. Student to instructor ratio is 3:1. There isn't much down time in the class. You will either be listen to lecture material, adjusting gears, doing land drill, diving, watching post dive video .... Instructors are at least GUE tech 1 diver if not higher. So you won't find zero to hero instructor with 100 dives. Standard is very high for a recreational class. I have seen a seasoned PADI IDC didn't pass. And yes, you may actually not pass the class.

My AOW is no where close that standard. The issue with PADI is the low standard in two folds. One is the minimum standard for being an instructor. You can only learn as much as your instructor knows in the class. Two is it is almost impossible to fail a PADI class, so as long as you attend the class, fulfill the minimum, you are will receive the card. Sure you can find good instructors and spend the time to get to fundie quality, but it is rare for general off the shell AOW.

There are disadvantage with GUE tho. Being a small agency and less commeralized approach to teah, their card may not get recognition in some places. I enounted this in Thailand (group me with OW students), HongKong (not letting me rent a drysuit) and Hawaii (not let me pump 32%).

So if you want to be better/safer diver, fundie anywhere with any instructors will get you there. If you want to have a card that can be recognized, AOW get you there.

---------- Post added February 19th, 2015 at 09:21 PM ----------

AOW
Rescue
Nitrox
Intro to Tech

In PADI world, I think fundie > AOW + nitrox + drysuit.

I wouldn't put rescue there tho. Fundie's rescue skill is mainly in water, like how you will get a non conscience diver from depth to surface safely. In this sense, I think Fundie is better than PADI rescue. But PADI rescue also has a large component in land activities. I did take padi rescue after fundie and found it benefitial.

 

[Ayisha]

Like others said, get Advanced to get on an "advanced" boat, and GUE Fundamentals for the impeccable skills. It will be immensely challenging no matter what your current skill level, and just as rewarding.

 

[TSandM]

The Fundies card specifically states you are trained in the use of 32% Nitrox, and operators and resorts seem to take that pretty well as a Nitrox card. I would suspect that a dive op like the one we ran into in Indonesia, who wouldn't let me below 80 feet because I didn't have my Deep specialty card with me, might have trouble figuring out what a Fundies card would allow me to do --at least until they saw me in the water, performing at a Fundies Rec pass level.

I am currently sitting in on a Fundies class in Canada. We did the section on oxygen toxicity and narcosis today; we will do some stuff on decompression and gas planning over the next couple of days. We will work on being able to descend and ascend as a coordinated team, and we will learn to shoot a bag as a visual reference for a direct ascent. When I compare that with my Deep specialty, the only thing I can think of that isn't covered in Fundies is breathing off a hang tank, and that's because we don't require or provide hang tanks. On the other hand, my Deep specialty taught me nothing at all about gas planning for deep dives, especially minimum reserves; it taught me no more than I knew from OW about decompression or ascent strategies, and I vividly remember spending my "safety stop" hanging onto the upline for dear life, in a frankly vertical position, trying to play tic-tac-toe with my instructor.

The goals of the two classes are so different as to be impossible to compare.

 

[KenGordon]

I am looking to continue my training and was curious if anyone had any feedback on how well the GUE Fundamentals cert is received when travelling? I travel to Florida, Caribbean and Mexico and would like to participate in some of the "advanced" charters. Deeper bull shark dives, etc...

I definitely feel I will be a far better diver after completing the GUE course compared to the AOW specialties, but I'm really curious is if it's worth obtaining both.

Does anyone receive any push back when presenting their GUE cert as an advanced and get limited to 60' depths, no drifts, etc.?

Thanks

Apples and oranges. Both these courses are stepping stones in a system, but rather different systems. You ought to read Gareth Borrow's (a UK GUE instructor) on how people approach Fundies (look at 'The Dive Forum').

I get the impression that most people doing it have enough diving to understand that there is room for improvement of basic skills. As such they probably have more than an entry level qualification already.

 

[Centrals]

With an AOW you can't use the 28% supplied.... So what's your point?
BRad

How about if nitrox is not available.
There are still places in this part of the world where only AIR is available.

 

[scubadada]

Did my advanced training through LA County ADP two yrs ago with over 100 hrs of training which entailed every sat/sun for 2 1/2 months. Fundies is next and hopefully with Steve Millington or Karim Hazma at Hollywood Divers.

Now, that's an advanced class. If I hadn't left SoCal in 1980, I would have loved to participate in this program. The LACUU basic scuba training I did in 1970 was phenomenal

 

[bradells]

How about if nitrox is not available.
There are still places in this part of the world where only AIR is available.

Well ****, I think I'm stuck.:blinking: (This was not directed at you Centrals .... )

No course goes out teaching "Your XYZ course was wrong, you're going to die and kill everyone in the water, so do it only this way!" I have a piece of plastic in my wallet that says I can safely dive to 40m, one that says to 30m and another that says to 18m. Which one is right?

In the GUE curriculum, we're taught the Air rules (Navy, DSAT/'PADI'), and how we get our 32% guidelines/rules and a few other things about how/where/why about decompression in general and specific to the types of diving were doing (recreational, no 'decompression' and ceilings). So, we can default back to our teaching in our Fundies course (or a previous, PADI, SDI, XYZ, ... teachings).

(With 32%, we get 20% more MDL than with 21%, so we can go back to the rule of thumb of 110 rather than 130 due the nitrogen content.)

Say you have a trimix card, but you can't get trimix for a dive. Do you still do A (any) dive? Or do you sit on shore, sulking that you can't get trimix, and are soooo depressed that you don't dive at all? Most divers I know, going on a trip, usually find out well in advance if they have, or can get the gas we would like for our dives, and/or plan around not having those gases.

I really don't know what some peoples beef is with GUE, and getting hung up on this stated 32% fact on a supposedly 'worthless' piece of plastic according to the rest of the world (because it doesn't say PADI AOW).



Hey Lynn, Tell Guy I'm hoping to get the new suit wet on Sunday.

BRad

 

[Pullmyfinger]

There is no comparison between these two courses. They each have different goals in mind, and much different performance standards.

---------- Post added February 20th, 2015 at 02:51 AM ----------

I really don't know what some peoples beef is with GUE,

BRad

Some people have a beef with everything.

 

[scubadada]

It is tiresome to read folks crapping on the AOW class; your complaints about it are that it is not the course you'd like it to be. It is kind of like complaining about a book on basketball because it is not about football.

AOW is meant to let people step gently beyond their OW training, and to give them an awareness of diving at depth (60-100 ft), and some confidence in U/W navigation. They also get to taste some other things they might be interested in. Sure, someone who has been diving for years and years in all kinds of conditions may not need that....but they had to learn it (on their own) anyway (I hope). AOW is not technical training, it is not a specialty course in deep, or nav, or night, or buoyancy, or whatever. And even as limited as it is, it might be taught poorly. That is not the course's fault.

The point here is that GUE Fundamentals is a good course...but it does not replace the AOW for someone who is a new diver and wishing to go on some charters that might go a little deeper or requires some navigational skills. If I wanted to get the equivalent of Fundies I guess I'd find a good instructor and do PPB and Intro to Tech...but then in addition I'd still want to do a Deep class plus a Navigation class and a full Rescue class.

I'm with tursiops

I feel sorry for all the folks who feel AOW was a waste of money, learned nothing, and only got a card that would allow them to do dives that require the certification.

A little over 10 years ago, I had a very good PADI instructor and AOW course on Grand Cayman that consisted of deep, nav, PPB, DPV, and wreck. I went on to finish the deep, PPB, and DPV specialties and had previously done nitrox. I did my AOW at about 80 dives, learned things, and did not waste my money

I went on to do Rescue the next year. Now, 800 dives later, I'm a decent diver. The only other training I've taken is the SDI solo diver course, it was for the card, but I learned things and it was not a waste of money either.

Good diving, and good diving education,

Craig