AOW student dies in training: Alberta

[Jax]

[/QUOTE]I think I answered this in the other half of this thread:

The need (and desire) to practice must be inherent in the training to begin with. One of the biggest problems with most diving instruction is that a student is "taught" to do something, demos it once, and then is moved to the next "skill." The skills are never integrated into a whole and the student is not given a practice model to repeat on his or her own. Saying, "now you need to practice," is meaningless by itself.

A perfect example, except for the start and end of the dive most divers never remove or replace their weights, in fact, they only did it once ... in class. We place belt remove/replace into a practice exercise and our students do it, I'd guess, on the order of 100 times during class as well as have it firmly in mind as part of their practice routines.

[/QUOTE]

Agree . . . I'm just not expressing myself well this weekend . . .

I think we all agree that practice is needed . . . we must practice what we learned in OW. However, I find that I am in a minority as far as practicing. It seems that the message, "you must practice", as well as a model for practice, isn't being put forward. Geez, it seems like we carry the message to practice skiing drill from a ski class; how is it we cannot give that same message to our beginning (OW & AOW) students?

I used to think my local guy was a bit of a drag for insisting on skills during every class. He wanted me to demonstrate proficiency. I decided to practice on my own, mostly influenced by what I read here. I'm different; I'm a self-starter.

What is it that instructors could do to send the message to students?

 

[Thalassamania]

Because recreational diving is run by the idea that time is money and the concept that safety pays is more honor'd in the breach than the observance.

 

[Thalassamania]

That is the sad truth no matter where are we. There are always accidents that happen.

That's simply not true, the scientific diving community has shown that. The problem is that the recreational diving community doesn't see our solutions as, "cost effective."

 

[markmantei]

That's simply not true, the scientific diving community has shown that. The problem is that the recreational diving community doesn't see our solutions as, "cost effective."

What are the solutions that you do not see the wider rec. diving community adopting?

 

[Thalassamania]

Significant watermanship testing, increased training, real medical exams for all divers, yearly certification renewal, yearly activity requirements, experienced based depth certification, to name a few.

 

[ThomasScherrer]

>Significant watermanship testing, increased training, real medical exams for all divers, yearly certification renewal, yearly
>activity requirements, experienced based depth certification, to name a few.

are you kidding ?
well certenly a few could need anual recheck of driving skils and info about all rules in the trafic,
since no one clearly know anything about what they are doing,
it is ONLY me, who is following all the rules perfectly.. got it

 

[fjpatrum]

>Significant watermanship testing, increased training, real medical exams for all divers, yearly certification renewal, yearly
>activity requirements, experienced based depth certification, to name a few.

are you kidding ?
well certenly a few could need anual recheck of driving skils and info about all rules in the trafic,
since no one clearly know anything about what they are doing,
it is ONLY me, who is following all the rules perfectly.. got it

It's not "ONLY me", it's an entire community of professional divers (scientific) that adhere to these standards and they work. It has nothing to do with him being better than rec divers or thinking his way is the only right way, just that it has a proven record against the accidents others said were impossible to mitigate.

As Thal said, the rec diving community doesn't see it as cost effective but that's not a reason to poo-poo the method. It works. People just won't institute it in a rec diving world because it will definitely affect the bottom line of a lot of companies. We can't have that, now, can we?

 

[Jax]

As Thal said, the rec diving community doesn't see it as cost effective but that's not a reason to poo-poo the method. It works. People just won't institute it in a rec diving world because it will definitely affect the bottom line of a lot of companies. We can't have that, now, can we?

Not so sure about the rec diving community not supporting annual check-outs . . . more and more, I am seeing requirements for dives within the past year, or you go through a check-out with a DM / instructor. Not sure how the medical and training certs could be encouraged, though.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It's not "ONLY me", it's an entire community of professional divers (scientific) that adhere to these standards and they work. It has nothing to do with him being better than rec divers or thinking his way is the only right way, just that it has a proven record against the accidents others said were impossible to mitigate.

As Thal said, the rec diving community doesn't see it as cost effective but that's not a reason to poo-poo the method. It works. People just won't institute it in a rec diving world because it will definitely affect the bottom line of a lot of companies. We can't have that, now, can we?

No ... I think there's a more practical reason ... and that boils down to why we dive.

Scientific divers dive for work ... diving is one of the tools of their job. They're performing tasks that are part of their career, and for which they're getting paid. There's a whole mentality and motivation behind it that helps them determine how much time, money and effort is worth investing in their training.

Recreational divers dive for fun ... diving is just something they do in their spare time ... and in most cases, it's one of many things they do in their spare time. There's a whole different mentality and motivation behind it that helps them determine how much time, money and effort is worth investing in their training.

I believe that insufficient time, money and effort is usually invested in recreational diving ... and a significant percentage of diving accidents can be directly attributed to people diving above their training and experience level. But I think it would be difficult to apply scientific diving standards to the recreational community as much because of the motivation and mentality as because of the costs involved.

Just like the differences between recreational and commercial diving, you're comparing apples to organgutans ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScubaSteve]

I would personally prefer to see Diver Master's and Instructors have to annually certify rather than the divers they certify. Maybe there is something like this already (I am neither a DM or Inst). But I think improving and enforcing the caliber of instruction will result in better divers that require no such annual re-certification.