AOW student dies in training: Alberta

[ThomasScherrer]

from a few pages back, I am sorry my point was maybe not that clear,
my comments was GENERALLY speaking, not really related to the alberta case,
just like anyone else with good intentions and no info at all, only guessing about the case,
so we end up talking generally about safety and education level.. fine..

GENERALLY SPEAKING....

my input was not to make fun of anyone,
what I try to say is :
it does not matter what kind of testings or certificates you get,
if some people are just plain dumb, they do what ever they want,
taking what ever risk they like, and dont care if they kill them self or their buddy,
the analogy to traffic where this kind of behaviour is so much more clear,
we see it every day, people forget about the rules..
this simply just reveal how some people are, some divers are like this too, when diving.

I do not say the alberta person was like this !

Another thing I have learned quite a few times
is some divers simply got an amazingly low level of basic know how,
It could be good to know why, so it can be fixed.

do they forget real fast ?
are they just not focused or interested in the topic ?
was they poorly instructed ?
was the education bad or too fast or too weak ?
was it along time ago they took it ?
do they only dive a few times pr year on holidays ?
do they just expect others to help and nurse them and save them ?

I do not say the alberta person or his instructor was like this !

 

[fjpatrum]

No ... I think there's a more practical reason ... and that boils down to why we dive.

Scientific divers dive for work ... diving is one of the tools of their job. They're performing tasks that are part of their career, and for which they're getting paid. There's a whole mentality and motivation behind it that helps them determine how much time, money and effort is worth investing in their training.

Recreational divers dive for fun ... diving is just something they do in their spare time ... and in most cases, it's one of many things they do in their spare time. There's a whole different mentality and motivation behind it that helps them determine how much time, money and effort is worth investing in their training.

I believe that insufficient time, money and effort is usually invested in recreational diving ... and a significant percentage of diving accidents can be directly attributed to people diving above their training and experience level. But I think it would be difficult to apply scientific diving standards to the recreational community as much because of the motivation and mentality as because of the costs involved.

Just like the differences between recreational and commercial diving, you're comparing apples to organgutans ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, you are of course correct. I was comparing two dissimilar things and I didn't word it clearly enough to point out that while I believe money is the ultimate reason, the justifications behind wanting such standards in the first place may not even be there.

I personally wouldn't want to deal with a "re-cert" every year as someone who only does 15-20 dives a year (so far) but I can see how it would be a good thing. Jax mentioned that a lot of shops are starting to "mandate" a checkout dive if you haven't dived in the last year, which I think is good practice. That said, if I do 1 dive per year will a checkout dive really give an idea of what my responses are likely to be if things go sour?

 

[Steve50]

Bob, you are of course correct. I was comparing two dissimilar things and I didn't word it clearly enough to point out that while I believe money is the ultimate reason, the justifications behind wanting such standards in the first place may not even be there.

I personally wouldn't want to deal with a "re-cert" every year as someone who only does 15-20 dives a year (so far) but I can see how it would be a good thing. Jax mentioned that a lot of shops are starting to "mandate" a checkout dive if you haven't dived in the last year, which I think is good practice. That said, if I do 1 dive per year will a checkout dive really give an idea of what my responses are likely to be if things go sour?

my opinion = the answer is no

but if the checkout dive is a reveiw of all OW skills with particular attention to things that can go wrong you should be way ahead of not doing one...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My experience with checkout dives is that they're pretty useless, and don't really tell you anything about the diver. I recall missing a day of diving in Roatan because we arrived too late for that day's checkout dive and they wouldn't let us dive without one. So we waited until the next day ... only to discover that the "checkout dive" amounted to them wanting me to park myself on my knees in chest deep water and do a reg recovery and a mask flood and clear.

I wasn't impressed ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DeepSeaDan]

What's troubling about this (assuming the info is correct) is that you can breathe off of a free-flowing regulator. I teach this to all of my basic students. It's easy enough to do in the pool. They come up and face me (they're told ahead of time what we'll be doing), I depress their purge button and hold it, and they keep breathing off the free-flowing reg (a minute or so) until I release the purge. Then I tell them, "If it happens in the OW, just keep/hold the reg in your mouth, and do a normal ascent to the surface. Try to grab the pressure gauge if you can, but the point is to abort the dive and fix the problem."

- Ken

I agree with you; however, the students must understand that the described option takes a backseat to the option of first breathing off their own octo, then off of their buddy's octo, while that buddy secures the free-flowing gas supply, then the two of them make a safe ascent to surface. And again ( this can never be reiterated enough! ) - ALL ooa response options take a back seat to PREVENTION. I tell my students that if I ever hear that one of them runs out of gas, they will receive several brisk thwacks from my patented lead snorkel as a means of lesson reinforcement!

Regards,
DSD

 

[Ironmike515]

Dove this lake a few weeks after the accident there. Was with the same dive shop that was there when drowning happened. First let me say the dive shop runs very safe dives. The dive is a very cold one at 60' my computer had the temperature at 41F. Silty at bottom of lake but other wise very clear glacier blue water. This dive was my last cold water dive in a wet suit, I've since purchased a dry suit. I highly recommend the dive to anyone advanced or above and with someone that knows the lake well. Well worth the trip to Jasper ...

 

[Ironmike515]

Northwest scuba is great outfit, very good group of instructors and dive masters out of that shop. Did my AOW with them at the same lake & same spot were accident happened. From everything I've heard about accident it sounds like diver error. The lake is very cold below 40' and visibility can be a issue if sediment gets kicked up. I am continuing my training with Northwest and couldn't think of a better shop to learn from here in Edmonton Alberta.

 

[leeannelodge]

I would like to know, also, Devon.



Not saying this is what happened, but, running out of air is one of the leading causes of a diver to panic.

Also, considering that area the training was taking place, cold water could have also been a factor. A lot of times, it seems, divers go into the courses ill prepared/ equipped for those environments. It happened to me also, when I did my AOW. I had absolutely no idea of what to expect. It was my first time in a wetsuit, let alone a 2pc 7mm one, I was fresh out of OW & was massively underweighted for the dive. It was a recipe for disaster. Although I did not panic, I did struggle & the dive was not fun. Just 2 weeks ago our local quarry had an incident where an AOW course was under way. A student wearing only a 3mm wetsuit & a vest (no hood or gloves even) went down on the deep diving portion of the dive. He got just below 50 ft where the water temps are approaching 45 degrees. The student panicked & bolted to the surface. He was closely followed by another, assisting instructor, who was nearby but couldn't get to him quick enough to catch him. He came to the surface unresponsive & not breathing. The assisting instructor pulled the diver to the shore, very nearby & the quarry's emergency procedures were activated & EMS called. Once on shore, the victim vomited & resumed breathing on his own. Oxygen was administered & supportive care by several EMT's that were on site until EMS arrived. There was not much information about the diver after that other than he was transported to a hospital in Louisville, KY & did have to undergo recompression therapy. A few days later he was back to work.

I have also seen several instances of divers having freeze-ups & free flows that have caused them to panic.

Cold water is nothing to be trifled with. Many people who do not dive & many divers unfamiliar with cold water diving go into it thinking that cold water is like cold air. Nothing is further from the truth!

 

[leeannelodge]

Very hard to talk about this but the young man's name was tyler. He was my brother's best friend and one of the worst days our family went through. It was actually his tank that was having issues the trainer was helping the guy next to them it took seconds from her turning her head to help the other guy buy the time she turned around tyler was already on the water floor. The corner said he was gone before he hit the bottom.
He was 20 years old one handsome guy with an amazing life ahead of him. He was taken too soon. Rip tyler you are missed by so many

 

[leeannelodge]

yes it was an PADI AOW class becuase thats the only certification Northwest Scuba does

I know 100 % that it was padi aow the young man who died was my brother's best friend his name was tyler 20 years young. I know exactly how he passed away.