AOW student dies in training: Alberta

[Jax]

:focus:

[Speculation:] So far, we seem to have two instances where divers died in scenarios where they could have ditched their gear. [/Speculation]

Are students not taught gear-ditching anymore?

 

[DandyDon]

:focus:

[Speculation:] So far, we seem to have two instances where divers died in scenarios where they could have ditched their gear. [/Speculation]

Are students not taught gear-ditching anymore?

I can show your dozens of threads where the diver was found dead with weights on. Ditching is taught but too often forgotten in the time of need. I've thought of it when dealing with challenges on the surface but did not at depth until KenK and I discussed that recently. My home bud & I drill on it the first dive of any trip now, be it a practice dive trip in New Mexico or a real trip.

 

[Roko]

He is listed as the primary Inst: who we are

Just to clarify, flamingo divers is not an actual brick and mortar shop selling gear in Edmonton. I believe that's what the previous poster was getting at.


Sent from my Android

 

[Scuba-dan]

Not saying this had anything to do with the accident, but one of my biggest complaints with the way most scuba divers are taught is that there is way more emphasis on what to do when you run out of air than there is on how to not run out of air in the first place.

Logic would dictate that the best way to deal with any accident is to prevent it from happening.


Whatever the water temperature, one of the major weaknesses of how AOW is currently taught is that the students often go into the class ill prepared/equipped for those environments. The fact that AOW is often sold as "five more dives with an instructor" should be your first clue ... if you go into it feeling like you need supervision after OW class, then you are not prepared to take on more challenging dives in new environments. You would be better off hiring a DM or finding a mentor to take you diving in the environment in which you trained until you get comfortable with the skills you were supposed to have learned in OW. This is the most significant reason why so many people come out of AOW feeling like they didn't learn anything ... because, frankly, they weren't in a position to learn. All of their mental and physical bandwidth went into hanging on for dear life while they "survived" the AOW dives.

And you're right ... it's a recipe for disaster. That sort of "training" is just setting people up for an accident ... if not in the class itself, then shortly thereafter ... when they go off feeling like they're now somehow ready for deeper dives or more challenging conditions.

Folks need to slow down and remember that the whole point of scuba diving is to have fun ... dying isn't fun ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I so agree with you. I just got certified this year and I'm in no rush at all to go for my AOW. There are other students in my class with about only 10 dives and already thinking of doing their AOW, to me that's plain stupid. There should be like a 30 dive mandatory to even be accepted to do the AOW. There are also some LS here every time I go to fill my tank, asking me when I'm I doing my AOW. Keep telling them, there is no rush. I'm just enjoying it and simply gaining some experience before I even think about that.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Thank you. And remember, Mark had already stated it was heresay.

So, you are saying (above) that in your experience, there is a staff member assigned to every student? Is that normal for that lake or area? Of just for that dive shop?

As far as them "not being separated from the group" since you assume his buddy was a staff member ... why not? Isn't navigation one of the AOW skills? There are perfectly good reasons for them to not be with the group.

I find that one to one staff ratio mind-boggling. That is an extremely high overhead for a business.

It depends, Jax ... many of my classes are one on one ... at worst it's two on one. You teach to conditions ... if conditions are very low vis, then a small instructor-student ratio is better. If the shop can manage that sort of ratio, then good on them.

And remember, DM's don't typically get paid for staffing a class ... about the best they can hope for is reduced prices on gear and con-ed in exchange for helping with classes.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fjpatrum]

I'm a bit baffled by the number of apparent training accidents we've seen lately. I'm not going to speculate on any of them, even this one, but I will offer a couple points of conversation.

1) My OW dives were me and one other student for dives 1 & 2 and me and 3 other students for dives 3 & 4. Dives 1 & 2 we had 1 instructor and 2 DMs in the water with us. Dives 3 & 4 we had 1 Instructor, 1 assistant instructor and 3 DMs in the water (though only one of those DMs was officially part of the dives, the other two were just "watching the newbs".) A 1 to 1 ratio, while maybe not common isn't that unbelievable.

2) Whether there is a 1 to 1 ratio or not, that has no bearing on whether the buddy pair was separated from the rest of the group. The assertion that they weren't separated from group simply because there would have been an instructor buddy is not a valid logical conclusion from the information at hand.

3) My OW class did a fairly good job (in my opinion) of stressing not running out of air but it spent much more time on what to do in the event of an "airflow problem" whether it be running out of air, free-flow or flow-stop.

4) Cold water diving has a definite affect on everything but I'm baffled that anyone in Canada would be expecting anything other than cold water and wouldn't be prepared for it. The assertion that that speculative comments on here don't apply to cold water diving classes similarly makes no sense to me.

5) Just because an OW student shows basic mastery of skills in OW doesn't mean they are prepared for AOW immediately, even if that's what a shop tries to sell them on immediately. I flat out told my OW instructors I wasn't going to bother with AOW and shut them down immediately. They then got on to my OW dive training and stopped worrying about how to sell me more courses. I believe I got a better course as a result. I am now considering it after doing a lot more reading and a reasonable amount of diving. Pushing AOW immediately is a disservice to all OW students, in my opinion. Pushing a mentorship and dive trips with the shop would be a much better option, in my opinion, for the shop and the student.

 

[Hatul]

Someone mentioned the water temp is 44F at 55 ft, which in my mind is below the safe comfortable range of a 7mm wetsuit, except perhaps for a short time. We don't know if he wore a wetsuit, but if you're chilled it also effects how you react to problems.

It also points out the old problem, that often when buddy diving you're really diving solo as the buddy cannot be counted on to help you out (hello, where did that guy go?) . So unless you know your buddy you better be prepared as a solo diver with a redundant air supply.

Adam

 

[coldwatercanada]

all students diving in alberta are in 2 piece 7mm which work out to 14 mm on your core they are also give hoods and gloves

 

[FWADIVER]

all students diving in alberta are in 2 piece 7mm which work out to 14 mm on your core they are also give hoods and gloves

still doesn't mean they arent going to be cold. Heck for me anything colder than 75 degree water is drysuit mandatory. 44 degrees is pretty darn cold for any decent length dive, especially in a wetsuit, where compression at 50 feet is gonna make it suck even more.

 

[Roko]

all students diving in alberta are in 2 piece 7mm which work out to 14 mm on your core they are also give hoods and gloves

Not all students in Alberta train in wetsuits. Some shops in Alberta will train the students to go straight to drysuit on their first OW dives.

Sent from my Android