AOW necessary?

[asherlc]

I use a rather liberal oceanic and still need to manage my dives to stay within ndls. It is not at all difficult. Just pay attention and don't assume you are OK just because you are mostly following the group. Be especially careful if you throw in afternoon and night dives.

Enjoy.

I'm sure the answer is "it depends", but how many dives are feasible per day diving air in cozumel? It seems like 2 tanks per day is the de facto, but I figure I'm a young in shape guy with a whole second half of the day, and I'd like to make the most of it (while staying safe, of course).

Incidentally, why are 2 tank days the standard, as opposed to a liveaboard situation, where it sounds like 4-5 a day are not uncommon?

 

[Mossman]

The dives I did in Cozumel were with an operator from Playa and they did ask me my certification level and log book.
The local dives I do, the operators I use do know my dive history.

Huh. Maybe next time you should dive dives in Cozumel with operators from Cozumel. I have no idea why an "operator from Playa" would be selling dives in Cozumel anyway unless it was for the utmost in tourist exploitation in which case I'd bet they demanded AOW certification to balance out their liability. Or not. Who knows. My original statement stands.

 

[scubadada]

For most anyone at all serious about diving, I would recommend getting AOW and nitrox certified. AOW removes the hassle when there is the requirement for certain dives, nitrox gives you more bottom time and more flexibility regarding the SI. AOW is 5 dives, nitrox can be done entirely by e-learning and analyzing a couple of tanks at your LDS. By picking a good instructor, you can get something out of AOW, including choosing 3 worthwhile elective dives. AOW dives can be completed in 2 days.

PS Sorry I left this out, I'm assuming you're diving a computer

 

[boulderjohn]

Trying to do four dives per day in Cozumel on air using tables? You may not be able to do two dives per day using tables.

Cozumel dives require the use of a DM, and they normally lead multi-level dives. If you want to stay within table limits, you will have to hire a private DM.

My first dive trip after certification was to Cozumel, and I got on the boat with my tables in my dive gear. I faithfully followed the DM on the first dive, not having a clue about the idea of "multi-level." Back on the boat after the dive, I whipped out my tables to log the dive and prepare for the net one, exactly as I had been taught to do in my class, and I discovered that according to the tables (which assume a square profile, not multi-level), I was done for the day. In fact, I was in serious trouble, possibly on my way to the chamber, because I had very seriously missed the required emergency decompression stop. At that point, I became aware of the amused smiles of the other divers on the boat.

Summary: Your first multi-level Cozumel dive will be a serious violation of the table limits, and you will have to stay out of the water for 24 hours if you are following the rules of most tables.

(Yes, I know it is possible to do multi-level with tables using an unofficial, untested, unapproved, and untaught methodology.)

 

[cvchief]

Two thoughts.
- If the operator takes you to do deep dives without being certified as deepdiver (part of the AOWD), I would not feel comfortable nor confident with that operator.
- If you take the AOWD and you feel that the course contents and the instructor gives you nothing, then the Instructor and the dive school you've chosen were not correct. You should have chosen a better dive school and better instructor.

What is the magic level for a 'deep dive?' And if 70-80 foot dives are deep, you probably wouldn't be comfortable with any Coz op.

And if Coz was moved the US, I am sure the excessive tort litigation would require all sorts of extra training, like deep diver and drift diver and what not.

That being said, I got lots out of AOW. Took it soon after OW. But it is really like the second half of OW. That advanced tag is misleading.

I have been on the boat lots of time with people with nice gear and expensive computers that had no clue how to use them. Many times on SI, I would watch my DM get question and tell them how to work THEIR computer. That lead me to believe OW or AOW training doesn't mean you know what you are doing.

 

[Mossman]

Could be. I've seen many operators that do not require any log book or cert. **** happens and if something goes wrong, as an operator he will have to respond for someone that was diving deep without a card.

Really? How so? It's my understanding that we are all open water divers after receiving open water certification and as such, we are trusted to dive our own dives and not follow the leader blindly. Also, as far as I understand, there are no agency rules, let alone legal requirements, that a dive leader cannot lead open water divers beyond the 60' recommended maximum.

Dive accidents happen all the time, in Cozumel and outside of Cozumel. I'd bet a good deal of these involve open water divers that at some point in their dive exceeded 60'. I don't recall any where the dive op "had to respond" because the diver went too deep, unless the depth were extreme (i.e. the 130' hard maximum routinely accepted by all agencies as the open water depth limit) or the diver was clearly and obviously unsafe for that dive.

And this isn't just some corrupt Mexican practice. In the good old USA, where liability laws are among the most stringent in the world, dive operations routinely allow divers to dive deep without any certification beyond OW. Ed Robinson's, a highly respected dive op in Maui, for instance, was comfortable taking my cousin to 130' on the back wall of Molokini even though he only had around 20 dives at the time.

 

[redacted]

I'm sure the answer is "it depends", but how many dives are feasible per day diving air in cozumel? It seems like 2 tanks per day is the de facto, but I figure I'm a young in shape guy with a whole second half of the day, and I'd like to make the most of it (while staying safe, of course).

Incidentally, why are 2 tank days the standard, as opposed to a liveaboard situation, where it sounds like 4-5 a day are not uncommon?

2 tank trips are the standard because many of the better sites are a 10+ mile ride, but there are exceptions. Dive Palancar usually does 4 single tank trips per day, but they don't go very far and their dives are short. Dive Paradise used to offer a 3 Dive special with 2 tanks in the morning and a single tank after lunch.

I have done 4 and 5 dives per day but that was usually with Scuba Club taking advantage of their shore diving. I have never used EAN in Cozumel.

 

[nodakdive]

That being said, I got lots out of AOW. Took it soon after OW. But it is really like the second half of OW. That advanced tag is misleading.

Same here. We did the OW referral, a two tank "cut the apron strings" trip, and then the AOW dives. It could be called OW+ or something, or be a requirement for OW. Experiencing depth and some task loading dives under a watchful eye seems like a good thing. A good instructor makes a big difference.

I dive 4 tank days quite frequently. The shop drops us off at Playa Paradise or the Money Bar after the morning 2 tank trip. We eat lunch and chill, then they pick us up for the 2 tank afternoon trip. With smaller shops, afternoon trips happen if there are enough divers, usually 3 or 4.

 

[Mossman]

Incidentally, why are 2 tank days the standard, as opposed to a liveaboard situation, where it sounds like 4-5 a day are not uncommon?

Two-tank days are pretty much the standard for shore-based dive locales around the world, unless you're staying at a dedicated dive resort. Some dive ops, in Cozumel and elsewhere, offer three-tank trips some days. Or they'll do afternoon two-tank trips.

Cozumel is one of the few places where a handful of dive ops offer 120s. When I dive with Living Underwater, for instance, the pickup might be as early as 7:15 am and I get back to the hotel after 2 pm after two dives ranging from 60-90 minutes each. That's a long enough day for an old guy like me, especially when I plan on eating and drinking away the remainder of the day and night and need time to soak and unpack my camera, download and edit photos, etc.

On a liveaboard, you don't have downtime traveling to dive sites. Your meals are waiting for you in between dives, so you don't have to waste time getting to a restaurant. The camera table is right there on the dive deck, so you don't need to go back to your room to fiddle with it, just swap out batteries and memory cards. Everything is there for you only steps away within the space of a 100' or so boat.

 

[AdivingBel]

Plus on a liveaboard there really isn't much else to do but dive. There's plenty of other stuff to do in Coz. It's a vacation spot not necessarily a land based liveaboard. That said there are plenty of valet ops that will do afternoon trips if enough folks show an interest. If you dive with the same op enough, they may take you out even if it's just you and your dive buddy. Some of the shops will treat you like "family" once they get to know you. It's one of the things that makes Coz diving special.