AOW Disappointment

[Divedoggie]

Now I can see you point more clearly... But, you are saying two different things, average and few successful outcome.

I may have contradicted myself in there somewhere! But, basically, I am giving credit to Harvard for being outstanding, and developing very high percentages of well educated graduates.
State schools have many more students, with a much lower percentage of outstanding graduates, but never the less, they produce SOME outstanding graduates.

And then that relates to the diving agencies in the discussion.

 

[jviehe]

My AOW was a horrible experience ever at LDS.

The bottom time on each dive was 16 min (>21 min on PADI standard). LDS asked me to go to the Florida trip to complet a deep diving part (Of course, it is all extra money). During AOW, the fatty instructor wasn't even in the water and I have dived with a DM candidate. Wasn't it great that you could teach a diving with your own lips on the ground?

It was a nitrox combined dive and my nitrox tank is 26% as I recall. Of course, it was a self studying with a book and DVD and I took an exam in 20 min. He said, "You pass." LOL~~~

I didn't ask DPV course in AOW, but I had to do it without any agreement because it was the easiest option they offered. Yes, what I have done was just to ride DPV.


After then, I sent a memo and get a deep part done in my area without going to FL trip. He thought he was threatend because I have sent a written memo.

After then, I was told by a local diver that I complained because a DPV time was a too short for fun.

Can you believe this story? That is another part why I don't like PADI. How could PADI give away an instructor card to this kind of instructor? Even, he had a hard time to bend the knee because of his weight.

Sure, I still keep all documents for a legal record... My attonery actually asked me to go to the court though.

Again, you are confusing bad business practices on the part of the dive shop with agency standards and capabilities. Did you notify PADI of the bad service you recieved? BY the way, the standard is that dives must be 20 minutes OR 50cuft of air breathed.

 

[jviehe]

I understand this, but from my studies, I believe your facts are the ones in error. The bottom line in this discussion is we disagree over what exactly are the facts.

Of course the following is taken directly from thwe official PADI website:



Looks to me like they are calling it a course.

Yep, Ive already mentioned this. THe website has never been changed. All they did was add a frame around it. I will suggest that they do as it is obviously causing confusion with their training materials and regimen.

 

[jviehe]

Apparently what you KNOW from actually BEING a PADI instructor, differs from what's ACTUALLY posted on PADI'S website. This is where all the confusion is coming into play.


I'm sure you go above and beyond PADI's standards and that you are a decent instructor who gives your students what they fully deserve (if you didn't care about them or diving, we probably wouldn't see you hanging around on this board), but I hope someday you can step back and see the points other people are trying to make in this thread about AOW being a money making joke of a course much like alot of the other crap PADI (and other agencies) offer just to make a dollar.

OW is just fine how they have it becuase, let's face it, 90% of all divers never go below 30-40 feet while being supervised by some DM so how much training do they really need? Hopefully they get some practice in each year before going on their vacation where they tour a reef somewhere and look at the pretty vibrantly colored fishies. I hear about the occasional newbie death where the person simply didn't follow any of their most basic training and drowned in 20 feet of water with no buddy in site... but for the most part it's people with plenty of experience attempting more advanced things... may they RIP.

When someone takes an AOW class, it's probably becuase they wanna go beyond that threshold in the water were you know, all the colors are still nice and bright... and PADI, as well as many of the other agencies for that matter, really don't do anything at all to prepare a student for that... yes, they drill it into peoples heads not to dive outside their limitations, but they also do very little to help expand those limitations.

Of course its to make money. Did you think PADI was a charity? Of course, they dont force people to take the training dives, so it must be something people want. Ive found my students enjoy doing adventure dives, something they might never do otherwise. We do not do boat dives in OW class as we have springs to learn in, so the boat adventure dive naturally follows it. Some like doing a night adventure dive, some dont. Some even like FISH ID. It all depends on the diver. What you are not realizing is that you are not representative of most divers. Most divers are vacation divers, and these adventure dives are oriented towards them. So, I have to disagree with the negative view of AiD.

 

[Rick Murchison]

No bashing has taken place, but a good point is brought up. The current AOW from any of the main agency's(sic) is a joke to begin with and most of it could/should be lumped in with basic OW...

I see this kind of comment often, and I have a question...
If it's a "joke" why would you include it in any course?
Rick

 

[paulw]

I for one found AOW to be very helpful and would recommend it to anyone but I believe all learning experiences are what you put into it not withstanding bad teachers. I believe you should check out your instructor and or learning center. It is unfortunate that there are cheaters but..... Does PADI go for our money?? YEP, them and everyone else thats just the way it is. I have been lucky and have had great instructors who cared about what I was doing so I would not hurt myself or anyone else and dive out of a great informative shop. I do believe if any of us find a bad instructor we should get the word out so others can know who to avoid. My .02.

 

[jviehe]

Maybe it will help for me to post PADIs official training philosophy on AiD, which can lead to AOW cert. I agree, the website is not in line with this, but i would have to go with official instructional technique over internet marketing. I assume they simply didnt want to confuse people more who latched on to the term "AOW". Especially when other agencies AOW is totally different.

Program Philosophy
The PADI Adventures in Diving program
is based on the premise that
diving is a means to explore other
interests. Once comfortable with basic
skills, divers want to conquer new
tasks, see different creatures, journey
into diverse environments and experience
new adventures.
Divers look for convenience and
flexibility in continuing their diving
education. The program’s design
allows divers to choose the dives that
interest them and to sample activities
under the guidance of a PADI Instructor.
Some divers may choose to make
only one Adventure Dive. Others may
want additional recognition and complete
several dives to earn a PADI certification.
The variety of dives, scheduling
options and certification paths
makes this program appealing to all
divers, especially Open Water Divers.
Because each Adventure Dive may
count as the first dive of the related
PADI Specialty Diver course, the program
motivates student divers to continue
training. Some may choose to
earn specialty diver certifications before
completing the dives required for an
Adventure Diver or Advanced Open Water
Diver certification. No matter which
training path they choose, the Adventures
in Diving program encourages divers
to gain practical diving experience
under supervision.
The PADI Adventures in Diving program
is key to the success of any PADI
Continuing Education program. It sets
the foundation for additional training,
not only for PADI Specialties, but also
for meeting other PADI course prerequisites.
PADI Rescue Diver
and leadership level
programs build upon
skills divers acquire
during various Adventure
Dives

 

[Walter]

Especially when other agencies AOW is totally different.

Actually, PADI is closer to being in line with other agencies with its AOW course than with other courses it offers. SSI doesn't have an AOW course, so it is not similar to SSI's AOW certification.

THe website has never been changed. All they did was add a frame around it. I will suggest that they do as it is obviously causing confusion with their training materials and regimen.

Call it a program or call it a course, either way (PADI calls it both) it is still a course and not a very good one, although PADI's AOW is not the only one that is a waste of time, so is YMCA's. NAUI's is somewhat better.

 

[plot]

I see this kind of comment often, and I have a question...
If it's a "joke" why would you include it in any course?
Rick

It's a joke becuase it's not really "advanced", it's added basic OW material, so why not just include it in basic OW? Or why not add to it and make it a truely advanced course?

Maybe you only see the people who didn't like their AOW course comment about it on these boards, and we're truely in the minority... maybe others simply havn't looked into it enough to know any better. Just like most people think their first instructor is awesome becuase they have nothing to compare it too... it's later on that they realize how terrible/great that first instructor really was.

 

[plot]

Actually, PADI is closer to being in line with other agencies with its AOW course than with other courses it offers. SSI doesn't have an AOW course, so it is not similar to SSI's AOW certification.

SSI has an "Advanced Open Water Diver" rating, that requires 4 diving specialties. Most shops offer some form of AOW course that covers 4 diving specialties so you get the card. 24 dives are required.

http://www.ssiusa.com/coned.htm