Aow=bs

[bfw]

First off, the OP was using an n of 1 to dismiss AOW as a concept. There's a problem with that, because in trying to draw conclusions about the value of a class

That's assuming he was addressing the value of the class. In addressing the value of the CREDENTIAL, an n of 1 is valid.

Seasickness, for example, has nothing to do with one's education.

As I read it, he said the diver vomited at the END of EACH dive. That's not typically seasickness, but rather stress during the dive, which would speak to the quality of one's training.

 

[bfw]

How do we get from a post ragging on some poor seasick new diver to PADI bashing?

I must be missing something - I see no mention of PADI.

 

[bfw]

:huh:
So all AOW training is BS then???
and by the same measure, all recreational certs are too ??

I didn't say anything about the training - I spoke of the CREDENTIAL
Break it down - what is a certification - someone presumably reliable CERTIFIES, i.e. guarantees, warrants, promises, testifies that the holder of the credential posesses a certain level of competence. The value of any credential lies in its being CONSISTENTLY reliable. If anyone had relied upon the credential of the individual in question, they were badly betrayed by that reliance, and no longer have any rational basis to rely on such a credential with any certainty.

 

[The_DivePirate]

I also never really saw mention of PADI. But, it sure seems some PADI divers really took offense too this thread. Why's that?

Joe

 

[D_B]

I didn't say anything about the training - I spoke of the CREDENTIAL
Break it down - what is a certification - someone presumably reliable CERTIFIES, i.e. guarantees, warrants, promises, testifies that the holder of the credential posesses a certain level of competence. The value of any credential lies in its being CONSISTENTLY reliable. If anyone had relied upon the credential of the individual in question, they were badly betrayed by that reliance, and no longer have any rational basis to rely on such a credential with any certainty.

OK, but why just AOW? why does the same thing not apply to other certs like OW?
Can't you say the same thing of most any recreational diving certification?
People read over and over here on ScubaBoard (and even in this thread) about divers, ones with certifications, that run from OW all the way to Instructor, that they would not dive with or consider very much lacking in even basic skills.. we all know that just because your carrying a card does not make it so

 

[The_DivePirate]

That's why I say, you need too look around for an instructor that suits your needs. Ask when the next open water session scheduled and go to the site and see how the students in the class are taking it in, also keep an eye on the instructor and his/her disposition. At the end of the day, ask the students if they feel they are getting their moneys worth, or is the class just a way of getting a diving cert card? Remember how hard you had too work for the money you are getting ready too give that instructor. Like with most things, you get what you pay for, just sometimes you get ripped off. Don't get ripped off, do some research.

Joe

 

[seaducer]

I also never really saw mention of PADI. But, it sure seems some PADI divers really took offense too this thread. Why's that?

Joe

So I suppose your rant on "Put Another Dollar In" and "cracker jack training facility" and such was about some other training agency?

You started the post off with:

Seems that alot of people here are putting PADI out on the line too dry. I haven't read ALL the posts, but it didn't seem anyone was saying which agency the op was affiliated with.

So you must have seen it at one point?

But then you pile on with the rest...

the wife of one of the shop owners who had too make such a big deal of getting a MASTER DIVER cert (which she had) but she couldn't even remember how too put together her gear by herself, let alone don her own drysuit. That was a wife of a LDS owner, and if that is the credentials to become a MASTER DIVER well than I don't plan on Putting Another Dollar In. I guess, if your gonna claim too be the BEST agency, and act as if it were the case, you should make sure your instructors were not putting out sub par divers. In regards too the statement above, most agencies will crossover other agencies pro's without major hassle, while others are just too proud (of what, is my question?)

Not talking about PADI? So right there you judge an entire agency on one experience with one diver?

I am PADI certified. I guess I suck and should go jump off a bridge before I do something stupid and get myself and some would-be rescuer killed. I should shred all my logbooks and c-cards because they are all worthless.

If I met someone from NAUI who had to stop and think what side their 2nd stage goes on, and then giant strides without hooking up their LP inflator OR turning their air on and btw it was good that they forgot to put their wieght belt on.( get the idea that I am describing something I may have actually seen???) I would not judge the entire agency as crap like so many people do here... The guy was goof and he knew it all and had been everywhere.

Maybe he was really trained by PADI and just stole someone else's NAUI card to add some credibility to his wild tales?

You were right, the OP never mentioned the agency, yet somehow PADI gets dragged in...:no

I think I know what it feels like to be a Gieco Caveman....

 

[jviehe]

The name of the course(s) could be changed to reflect reality: call it EOW (Extended Open Water), or maybe BOW (Beyond Open Water.)

Advanced is accurate if you look up the definition of the word. PADI also is on record saying the intent was for it to be progress beyond OW. This is what advanced means. Your issue should be with the industry for taking that to mean some sort of expertise.

 

[seaducer]

Advanced is accurate if you look up the definition of the word. PADI also is on record saying the intent was for it to be progress beyond OW. This is what advanced means. Your issue should be with the industry for taking that to mean some sort of expertise.

Or that the individual felt it should mean some sort of expertise and felt let down.

 

[Guba]

"I think the term "AOW" is misused in syntax. People seem to feel it means "this diver has advanced skills." I firmly believe the term means "this diver has advanced their level of skill above OW." That isn't to imply they are some sort of expert...it merely means he/she has taken steps--with the aid of an instructor--to move their diving education forward."

Sorry, but I'm quoting myself here, from post number 22. Perhaps renaming AOW might be the answer. Then, perhaps every diver who tends to be a bit, er, "judgemental" might be able to resist evaluating the quality of an entire organization by a few of its products.
Ya know, I rarely see this type of judement in other areas of society, say blacklisting a college because one of its grads wound up homeless or a branch of the military because one of its vets robbed a convenience store. Nope, it just seems to show up here on the board concerning a particular certifying agency. Curious, no?