AOW as an experienced diver

[drbill]

My original Los Angeles County cert from the 60s allowed me to go to 130 ft. However, most of the young dive instructors and DMs I encountered while traveling had no clue about what the LAC cert meant (far more rigorous than most current agencies). I was asked to do too many damned "check out" dives by youngsters whose parents might not have been born when I started diving. When I got to the Great Barrier Reef in 2001, the instructor there nbot only knew what the LAC cert was, he referred to it as a "museum piece." He offered to give me a PADI AOW cert for the cost of the materials so I did it... but only so I could stop all the questioning. I did go on to get a PADI rescue cert. What was covered in PADI AOW and Rescue had mostly been covered in my three week LAC course back in the 60s (except for the new stuff).

 

[supergaijin]

That is rare case, and you are lucky you got a good instructor. My AOW seemed to be geared for pass the class, leave money on the counter. Someone mentioned it before that the course will only give you that what is one willing to learn from it. At the same time though, I think there should be some minimal standard to which AOW c-card holders are held.....

my point is that finding someone who will actually take their time and teach you things you have gaps in -- lucky you, most dont

You can get lucky and 'walk in to an instructor' who has the right attitude for the job, but better to get some recommendations from other people. Word of mouth is still the best kind of advertising IMO.

There is a minimum standard set by agencies. That minimum does not reflect the name of 'advanced' OW. Whether the instructor or DC is willing to go further than the minimum is the difference. 5 Star centers mean nothing in many cases- it doesn't guarantee a quality course. Unfortunately many shops fight a price war with their competition and for the many many consumers, the idea of saving $50 on a course is often a deciding factor. To keep competitive, many shops will run the AOW course along side fun divers- for example there is a group of AOW certified divers and one or two students, thus the instructor is acting as both guide and instructor. For the reasons of keeping costs to a minimum and for the DC to see some kind of profit at the end of the day, this kind of doubling up is pretty widespread IME.

I wish more DCs would screen applicants before agreeing to teach the AOW course. Theoretically they can but most do not. If someone pays for the course, they are effectively paying for the license. As I now operate my own DC, I am in the position to do this now and not receive any heat from the management. I just hope it doesn't result in financial ruin

 

[TMHeimer]

My original Los Angeles County cert from the 60s allowed me to go to 130 ft. However, most of the young dive instructors and DMs I encountered while traveling had no clue about what the LAC cert meant (far more rigorous than most current agencies). I was asked to do too many damned "check out" dives by youngsters whose parents might not have been born when I started diving. When I got to the Great Barrier Reef in 2001, the instructor there nbot only knew what the LAC cert was, he referred to it as a "museum piece." He offered to give me a PADI AOW cert for the cost of the materials so I did it... but only so I could stop all the questioning. I did go on to get a PADI rescue cert. What was covered in PADI AOW and Rescue had mostly been covered in my three week LAC course back in the 60s (except for the new stuff).

Yeah, too bad OW isn't like that today. It's scary to think about 2 newbies diving with no rescue training at all (like in my case). But that's old news. PADI dropped the 20 dive requirement for Rescue, which is probably a good thing. Plus you get to pay for a Rescue course....Of course if that training is in OW it would cost more. How much did your long OW course cost back then (in terms of today's dollars)?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

5 Star centers mean nothing in many cases- it doesn't guarantee a quality course.

Why would it? The 5-Star rating has more to do with the number of certs that get sold than it does the quality of education provided ... those two goals are often at odds with each other.

I wish more DCs would screen applicants before agreeing to teach the AOW course. Theoretically they can but most do not. If someone pays for the course, they are effectively paying for the license.

... and this is an example of how they're at odds ... the incentive is to find a way to pass the student, otherwise you don't sell the cert. Furthermore, unless someone passes, con ed is rather moot. Therefore the business model is set up to pass the student ... as quickly and cheaply as possible ... in order to sell them the next class. It's a system that's designed to appeal to mediocrity.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added May 18th, 2012 at 12:08 PM ----------

Yeah, too bad OW isn't like that today. It's scary to think about 2 newbies diving with no rescue training at all (like in my case). But that's old news. PADI dropped the 20 dive requirement for Rescue, which is probably a good thing. Plus you get to pay for a Rescue course....Of course if that training is in OW it would cost more. How much did your long OW course cost back then (in terms of today's dollars)?

... unless, of course, you take that OW class with NAUI, SEI, or another agency that includes rescue skills in OW. My YMCA OW class in 2001 included rescue training ... and my first 20 or so post OW dives were with another graduate of the same class. Coming out of that class, I felt quite prepared to plan and conduct my dives independent of supervision. That is, after all, one of the class objectives of OW for every training agency ... and if students aren't capable of doing it, they shouldn't be granted the c-card ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[drbill]

Yeah, too bad OW isn't like that today. It's scary to think about 2 newbies diving with no rescue training at all (like in my case). But that's old news. PADI dropped the 20 dive requirement for Rescue, which is probably a good thing. Plus you get to pay for a Rescue course....Of course if that training is in OW it would cost more. How much did your long OW course cost back then (in terms of today's dollars)?

I don't know the cost since the school that hired me footed the bill for it (if there was one... it may have been a freebie since one of the schoo's board members was a dive buddy with the owner of the shop). My guess is that a course like that today would cost $1,000 or more... "prohibitive" for many people to get a start diving.

 

[James R]

It seems like you've already decided that you can't (or wont) learn anything from the course. Anytime you go into something like this already convinced that you wont learn anything from it you're most likely going to be correct!

My suggestion is simple: keep an open mind. Check your ego and allow yourself be open to learning something, anything, from it. Although not certain, you may well be surprised at the outcome.

 

[supergaijin]

Why would it? The 5-Star rating has more to do with the number of certs that get sold than it does the quality of education provided ... those two goals are often at odds with each other.

The name alone implies excellence- 5 star hotels, Michelin star restaurants, 5 Star Padi shops. There is a bit more to it than just being a busy dive center but again it doesn't say anything about the teaching ability of its staff.

... unless, of course, you take that OW class with NAUI, SEI, or another agency that includes rescue skills in OW. My YMCA OW class in 2001 included rescue training ... and my first 20 or so post OW dives were with another graduate of the same class. Coming out of that class, I felt quite prepared to plan and conduct my dives independent of supervision. That is, after all, one of the class objectives of OW for every training agency ... and if students aren't capable of doing it, they shouldn't be granted the c-card ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Which rescue skills are included in NAUI and SEI? PADI has very basic rescue skills like cramp removal and towing and basic information like what to do with unresponsive divers on the surface, a bit about the importance of O2 etc. That's about it. If I have the time, it'd be interesting to include some more skills but given that, It'd be helpful to know what other agencies promote as suitable skills for entry level divers so as not to overload them.

 

[AfterDark]

It seems like you've already decided that you can't (or wont) learn anything from the course. Anytime you go into something like this already convinced that you wont learn anything from it you're most likely going to be correct!

My suggestion is simple: keep an open mind. Check your ego and allow yourself be open to learning something, anything, from it. Although not certain, you may well be surprised at the outcome.

It may seem that way but things are rarely what they seem. I learn something from everything I do, but this is so lame it's hard to even take serious. I have learned for instance that what passes for dive education is a joke. There were 5 divers in the Nitrox class besides me, 2 of them didn't own a PDC none of them knew how to use tables. So we spend about 45 min. bringing everybody up to speed, on tables. Sad. I don't think of myself as a especially bright or gifted person so, I figure if I can do this stuff it must be easy. Another thing learned is that I maybe be much safer solo diving full time.

 

[James R]

My nitrox class was the same! I was not happy. It took more than twice the time we were told. Ridiculous.

 

[Tigerman]

So what do you preferr? A quick course that ignore wether everyone actually learn what they should or one that takes twice as long but make sure everyone learn?
Would you rather just send people on their way with no further education and still a gap in their basic education (which btw may or may not be at the fault of the instructor) or make sure they get the further education and the gap in their former one filled?