CavernFrog
Contributor
I have noticed that there is a huge bias against ScubaPro among divers. Is it just because it costs more? I would think that diving equipment would not be something one would want to save money on.
Anti ScubaPro bias?
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The Chairman
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Those who don't like it seem to cite cost often. There are a lot of great regulators out there right now that are pretty inexpensive.
bamafan
Contributor
They cite costs and lack of service parts but honestly that isn't an issue now says with the internet. Scubapro regs are way cheaper in Europe and you can buy rebuild kits there too. If you know someone in the military or have friends in Europe you can save a lot of money. The mk 25 / G260 doubles set can be bought there for under $900 including spg's, hoses etc. I believe this is cheaper or close in price to Deep 6.
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Regulators-they forbid sale of parts to end users, huge problem with technical divers. They're also exorbitantly expensive. A MK25/G260 is $690 for just a first and second. A Deep6 Signature is $375. The Scubapro doesn't perform any better yet is twice the cost. *disclaimer, I do have 5x MK25's, 4x MK10's, 2x MK20's and 5x 109's from Scubapro, but they were all bought at idiotically low prices or given to me*. Should go forth and say that my bias isn't against the regulators themselves. The rest of my regs are Poseidons. If I were to buy new? 100% they'd all be Deep6's
Now, those of us in the "in" crowd all have our sources, but for new divers buying into it, they're just not a good value. In Europe and Asia they are still the king, even in technical diving, but other options, largely thanks to @cerich have started to displace them in the US in this type of crowd. A lot of people outside the US buy Apeks for similar reasons that @bamafan outlined with Scubapro, but in the US, both of those brands are marketed heavily and have basically priced themselves out of the tech market. For those that still like them, the market thankfully turns over every 3 or so years so you can buy them super cheap when people get out of the sport.
BC's-they took a long time to get into the bp/w market and this board has been heavily biased towards bp/w's for a very long time. Once they came out, the X-tek Pure was ~$700 and you could buy a Deep Sea Supply for $500 that was Made in USA, you could talk to the owner, etc etc. Again, not a good value. Granted, the wing also wasn't that great since it was so wide, but that's besides the point. You can now buy a higher quality bp/w package from @OWIC647 at Vintage Double Hose for just over $300 which is a steal.
Masks/Fins-most everyone loves Jet Fins and they make great masks. The fins have now fallen out of favor with the prevalence of sidemount and rebreather diving which tend to prefer neutral fins, but those of us that still dive doubles use them almost exclusively.
Dive gear isn't a "you get what you pay for" market. There are incredibly high quality products sold at reasonable prices, and there are incredibly high quality products sold at very high retail prices. Scubapro does not target technical divers because we don't make them a lot of money. They can sell high dollar, high margin products to recreational divers and make boat loads more money than they can to technical divers so they stay out of it. Technical divers tend to be rather vocal and are a large portion of this board, including the owner who responded first, the guy who posted above me, and myself. I see a lot more Scubapro gear in the "wild" than most other brands, but it is not in favor on this board or in a lot of technical circles for the reasons outlined above.
tldr: overpriced quality gear. sh!tty company
Now, those of us in the "in" crowd all have our sources, but for new divers buying into it, they're just not a good value. In Europe and Asia they are still the king, even in technical diving, but other options, largely thanks to @cerich have started to displace them in the US in this type of crowd. A lot of people outside the US buy Apeks for similar reasons that @bamafan outlined with Scubapro, but in the US, both of those brands are marketed heavily and have basically priced themselves out of the tech market. For those that still like them, the market thankfully turns over every 3 or so years so you can buy them super cheap when people get out of the sport.
BC's-they took a long time to get into the bp/w market and this board has been heavily biased towards bp/w's for a very long time. Once they came out, the X-tek Pure was ~$700 and you could buy a Deep Sea Supply for $500 that was Made in USA, you could talk to the owner, etc etc. Again, not a good value. Granted, the wing also wasn't that great since it was so wide, but that's besides the point. You can now buy a higher quality bp/w package from @OWIC647 at Vintage Double Hose for just over $300 which is a steal.
Masks/Fins-most everyone loves Jet Fins and they make great masks. The fins have now fallen out of favor with the prevalence of sidemount and rebreather diving which tend to prefer neutral fins, but those of us that still dive doubles use them almost exclusively.
Dive gear isn't a "you get what you pay for" market. There are incredibly high quality products sold at reasonable prices, and there are incredibly high quality products sold at very high retail prices. Scubapro does not target technical divers because we don't make them a lot of money. They can sell high dollar, high margin products to recreational divers and make boat loads more money than they can to technical divers so they stay out of it. Technical divers tend to be rather vocal and are a large portion of this board, including the owner who responded first, the guy who posted above me, and myself. I see a lot more Scubapro gear in the "wild" than most other brands, but it is not in favor on this board or in a lot of technical circles for the reasons outlined above.
tldr: overpriced quality gear. sh!tty company
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I own a good ammount of scubapro gear and have really come to dislike the company. First things first, scubapro does not make the most expensive gear. AFAIK, Atomic Aquatics does... at least for regulators and bcd's. "best" gear is highly subjective and mostly just opinion.
My disdain for a company that I've spent so much money with comes from their service and dishonest warranty policies. Both of my Scubapro S600/MK25 regulators came with "lifetime parts" warranties. Meaning, that I was never supposed to have to pay for parts during the annual service - only labor. They even included plastic "credit card" looking things to ensure I could hand it to the local scubapro shop when getting my stuff serviced. That went fine for the first four years I had my regulators...
Then one year I heard that they changed it so you had to buy a bcd, regulator, and maybe other stuff in a package to get the free parts deal. I thought it would be no problem because I had bought before they changed the rule. I had my documentation all in order, and even had the fancy card thingy. When I went to the shop, I was essentially told that Scubapro had changed the rules and was basically told "suck it up, buttercup - you're paying for parts if you want service."
What the actual F**K?
Now, I have no doubt if I went to the trouble to hire a lawyer and file suit I could get some sort of compensation. They're clearly not honoring the free parts program that I paid for. I think that would be time consuming and stressful and possibly expensive if I couldn't also get the lawyer to suck his fees out of Scubapro. So I decided not to pay scubapro for anything else ever again, and I do my best to tell the story to potential customers when I have the opportunity. Scubaboard affords me the opportunity to tell my story to many divers wondering about Scubapro - so I take that opportunity. Make of it what you will.
As for the gear, it's good stuff. Nothing bad will I say about their quality. Their customer service is something they should be hanging their heads in great shame over. It cost them one paying customer, and hopefully I'm not the only one.
P.S. It's not just one bad dealer. There are two scubapro "platinum" dealers within 5 miles of my home. Same story at both.
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comparing like models? No it's still Scubapro by about $450
Scubapro MK25T EVO/S620 Ti Regulator - $2200
Atomic T3 - $1750
and you get a reg bag with Atomic..
hah. There must be a competition to make the most expensive stuff possible!
johndiver999
Contributor
Gear is generally good or very good. I only buy their gear used. A poor value to buy new.
Puhleez. Go check the new Atomics BCD pricing. Not even close.
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