Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

[dmaziuk]

Cressi big eyes has user-removable glass (hint, hint). I'm not donating mine to science though, sorry, I only have one.

 

[lowviz]

Cressi big eyes has user-removable glass (hint, hint).

Sweet.

One question. Did you flame, toothpaste, or just deal with the lenses until they became seasoned? Or maybe (as that mask is not 'frameless') it came reasonably seasoned right out of the box?

 

[tursiops]

But wait, ammonia and oil is just so much easier since they are grocery store items, and the last step is the dishwasher so cleanup won't be too bad.
Since I'm going to Giant today, I'll give it a try anyway ...

OK, WTH! They don't have ammonia?!

?? it is on their website, and in my two local Giants. They call it "Clear Ammonia All Purpose Cleaner."

 

[-JD-]

The cleaning/chemical asile was actually amazingly full. I can now get (many) tens of different disinfectant/anti-bactarial/... products. "Regular" stuff is spotty though.

 

[dmaziuk]

Sweet.

One question. Did you flame, toothpaste, or just deal with the lenses until they became seasoned? Or maybe (as that mask is not 'frameless') it came reasonably seasoned right out of the box?

I don't remember: toothpaste for sure, flame maybe.

I surrendered to koolaid and am a happy seadrops user now: they work well on this mask.

 

[lowviz]

@-JD-,

I think that I'm on to something: Mix toothpaste (Arm & Hammer) with Baker's Grade Ammonium Bicarbonate, 1:1. Carefully add water to just make a sticky paste. Apply to inner surface of lens and wait several days. Leave mask in the open air so that no ammonia can harm the hard plastic parts.

That particular toothpaste is formulated with sodium bicarbonate. We are adding another bicarbonate salt, that of ammonia. They appear to be compatible. The ammonium salt slowly decomposes to ammonia, water, and carbon dioxide when wet. The toothpaste is only there to keep the ammonium salt stuck to the lens and moist so that it continues to release small amounts of gaseous ammonia.

I'll let you know how well this paste holds up in open air. Trying for some concoction that will last three days or so. I just bought two factory fresh masks for the final >sigh< attempt...



The pic above is NOT the lens from a new mask. It is an adhesion/drying test on an old failed mask.

 

[stuartv]

@-JD-,

I think that I'm on to something: Mix toothpaste (Arm & Hammer) with Baker's Grade Ammonium Bicarbonate, 1:1. Carefully add water to just make a sticky paste. Apply to inner surface of lens and wait several days. Leave mask in the open air so that no ammonia can harm the hard plastic parts.

That particular toothpaste is formulated with sodium bicarbonate. We are adding another bicarbonate salt, that of ammonia. They appear to be compatible. The ammonium salt slowly decomposes to ammonia, water, and carbon dioxide when wet. The toothpaste is only there to keep the ammonium salt stuck to the lens and moist so that it continues to release small amounts of gaseous ammonia.

I'll let you know how well this paste holds up in open air. Trying for some concoction that will last three days or so. I just bought two factory fresh masks for the final >sigh< attempt...

View attachment 686668

The pic above is NOT the lens from a new mask. It is an adhesion/drying test on an old failed mask.

This is awesome!

Any thoughts on how thick the layer of paste will need to be when applied to the lens?

Also, (asking the obvious - which may have already been addressed and I'm forgetting), what do you reckon could be the advantage of using this paste method versus just propping the mask so the lenses are held flat and then pouring liquid ammonia in, just to cover the lenses, but not overflow the mask skirt?

I fear I am failing to remember how some masks are constructed. Maybe some of plastic parts in the interior of the mask? I think the 2 that I killed by soaking in ammonia had plastic parts on the outside that died. I can't remember if they had plastic bits on the interior. My *thinking* is that they did not. But, I could be wrong. Also, it could be that those 2 did not, but others might - so a solution that preserves the plastic in those would still be valuable.

 

[drrich2]

I press on in order to take advantage of ammonia without subjecting any parts of the mask to this chemical, just the inner lens surfaces. I'm looking for a process that can be done in the open air so that any small amounts of released ammonia gas can quickly diffuse away.

"what do you reckon could be the advantage of using this paste method versus just propping the mask so the lenses are held flat and then pouring liquid ammonia in, just to cover the lenses, but not overflow the mask skirt?"

Very interesting. Stuartv beat me to it, so I'm editing my post. Here's a suggestion for how one might approach that.

1.) Sit the mask on a towel on a table, facedown, with the towel so I can get the mask to sit flat (describe the nose pocket jutting forward).

2.) Use an eye dropper to draw up some ammonia (liquid form).

3.) Use the eye dropper to drip liquid ammonia onto the central 2/3'rds area of the inner lens surface. Don't get any on surrounding plastics.

4.) Check back several hours later. Perhaps liquid ammonia has dried. Repeat Step 3.).

5.) Basically, do Step 3.) twice daily, morning and night, for a set duration. For sake of argument, let's say 5 days.

6.) Then hold the mask under strongly running bathtub water discharge for awhile, to remove any residue. Dry and done.

Is that likely to work? Is there a problem with that approach? Are fumes from the ammonia likely to degrade the plastics?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I use a little Bon Ami cleanser. Wet the mask, sprinkle some in, work it around with a paper towel and rinse it out well. Bon Ami will get glass cleaner than any other method.
It will also work to remove even the most stubborn water spots and mineral deposits on automotive glass (on any glass).
Bon Ami is what we use to get glass absolutely clean so we can do water gilding gold leaf signs on windows. The water must “sheet out” and can’t have any contamination whatsoever. Bon Ami is the only thing that works. It also has no chlorine, perfumes, dyes, or any other dangerous chemicals.

 

[stuartv]

I use a little Bon Ami cleanser. Wet the mask, sprinkle some in, work it around with a paper towel and rinse it out well. Bon Ami will get glass cleaner than any other method.
It will also work to remove even the most stubborn water spots and mineral deposits on automotive glass (on any glass).
Bon Ami is what we use to get glass absolutely clean so we can do water gilding gold leaf signs on windows. The water must “sheet out” and can’t have any contamination whatsoever. Bon Ami is the only thing that works. It also has no chlorine, perfumes, dyes, or any other dangerous chemicals.

That is good information. But, do you think it does the same chemical transformation that we are seeking with this ammonia treatment? I.e. does it hydroxylate (I think I'm using the right term) the glass, making it highly resistant to fogging?

I'm looking forward to a final answer on this that gives us a fairly simple way to accomplish the hydroxylation of the glass, to make it, well, as hard to fog as it can possibly be. Perfectly clean is good. Probably good enough, for many masks and divers. But, clean and hydroxylated seems to be better.

If we (meaning, really, lowviz) end up with a relatively simple paste that can be used safely, I have already thought a little about making up a container of it and having it at the shop to possibly dole out to customers who buy new masks. Just one more perk of being our customer! It would REALLY be nice if my OW students quit showing up for their pool session with masks that constantly fog...