Anti-fog for full face mask in cold water and hard-breathing...

[JVC1950]

hi
I'm new in here, excuse me if this has been discussed before. I'm a gold dredger and have a NIRA 50/60 (Ocean Reef). I love this mask, but fogging is my problem. The river I'm working has very cold water year around (Trinity River, comes from the bottom of Trinity Lake) and I'm working (and breathing) pretty hard down there when I'm moving boulders, handling the suction hose, etc. Manual does not recommend spraying anything (probably due to the lens being plastic, not glass). I've tried increasing the air flow, and even cooling the air from the compressor. I can keep the lens clear to a point, by lowering my head and letting the regulator free-flow. But more often than not, I have to let some water in. And, I don't know why, once you let water in to clean the fog, it seems like it'll fog again much easier from then on ! Am I doomed by this bad combination of cold water and hard work ?....Any advice or help appreciated it.....

 

[james croft]

I am assuming the compressor is not pumping dehumidified air as it is probably a LP compressor used with surface supplied air so fogging is an issue in cold water. The best advice I can give you is to sell the Ocean Reef and buy an AGA FFM as the design is better than the Ocean Reef and will work better. The airflow across the faceplate will minimize fogging.
You are correct that once water enters the mask it refogs easier as the humidity inside the mask becomes greater and the cold water causes condensation.

 

[JVC1950]

James; yes, I'm using surface air at low pressure, around 60-80psi...(guess technically I'm not SCUBA...but I figure we all use same masks).....forgot to mention, I did install a filter that has a drain valve on the bottom, and I drain that filter regularly. I do get some water trapped there. I'll check that mask you mentioned, thanks. Kind of like this mask, fits real good... but.....I need to see those nuggets underwater !

 

[DA Aquamaster]

With a properly designed oral nasal cavity, fogging of the lens is not normally a problem. I agree an AGA is a better choice than what you have, but it would not be my first choice.

A Kirby Morgan EXO 26 would be ideal as it is designed for commercial diving where working hard is a given. A Kirby Morgan M48 is also a less expensive recreational/technical diving option as it incorporates a separate mask section and a separate oral cavity within the FFM so again exhalation has no impact on fogging the lens. The oral pod is also removeable so you can switch to an alternate air source underwater without removing the mask.

If you are interested I have an EXO 26 in like new condition that I would sell for $600.

 

[JVC1950]

...few years back I did try a Kirby Morgan ffm. Can't remember the model number, it was fiberglass body with neoprene hood attached. Lens was glass and it did have an oral nasal. I had 2 problems: it was too bulky (sometimes I'm in pretty fast water in the river) and the regulator did not work properly with the low pressure from my compressor. This, in fact, is my main concern with most ffm's I've seen. The reason I went with the NIRA 50-60 is because is the only one I've seen so far that comes with a regulator specifically made for low pressure (50-60psi). As I understand, most 2nd. stage regulators SCUBA are made for around 120psi., so I imagine that's what these ffm's (AGA, Kirby Morgan,etc) come with. Could they be calibrated to as low as 60 ?. Do they sell whithout a regulator, so I can install my own ?. I'm checking the Kirby Morgans on the Web. Thanks for the offer. I just bought this Ocean Reef, and at 500 bucks, I sure like to make it work...! (unless I get an offer for it).....

 

[JVC1950]

I re-read DA Aquamaster post after writting my last and it sank a little deeper what you said. Sure, with a good oral nasal it shouldn't matter whether you're breathing hard or not; the warm exhaust breath should be going out whithout affecting the lens. I've noticed however that when I slow down the mask does not fog so bad. So.....that makes me think that the problem really is with the air that is coming in and touching the lens (before going into the oral-nasal). The more air coming in (the harder I breath) the more humidity being accpeted, more fogging.....(Have I been underwater too long... ?!!) Maybe I should be looking at ways to super-dry the air at the surface....

 

[mntdiver]

The fogging might also indicate that you don't have very good CO2 washout. With any significant retention of CO2, you're going to breath harder due to CO2 being the trigger for your breathing. Do you use the mask strictly with surface supply? If you can try it on scuba, this would tell you if it's the mask or your hookah. I'm guessing you're using Keene equipment?

 

[JVC1950]

that's correct, I bought it through Keene. Compressor too (Thomas 263, it's the heavy duty). I've been in touch with Ocean Reef and I have to say they've been very friendly and they've tried to help. They made me check all the mechanical parts (one way valves, oral-nasal seal, etc.) but everything checks ok. I was hoping they'd let me use some of those anti-fog sprays, but they just won't go there. (And, of course, I've tried the spitting and tobacco rubbing thing. I'm open to any suggestions here, regardless of how exotic !!). The CO2 is a factor I haven't considered, I'm not very familiar with it, but I think we just breathe hard mostly because we are really doing a lot of physical work down there. I'm Scuba too, haven't tried this mask due to the regulator being made for low pressure air suply.

 

[james croft]

I suspect the old Kirby Morgan mask you used in the past was a KMB-8 or KMB-10 bandmask. While the earlier bandmasks still in use by a lot of commercial divers the newer EXO-26 masks Kirby Morgan makes are a bit more comfortable. I think I understand the issue you would have going to another FFM. I believe the very low pressure coming from your compressor may not work well with the regs in a Kirby Morgan or AGA. I suspect the regs you are using with your Ocean Reef are set up specifically for the very low pressure of your compressor. Might be problematic to attempt to run the other FFM on 60-80 psi. Mntdiver has some good advice about trying it with scuba tanks to see if it fogs.

 

[mntdiver]

I understand that OR has a set of springs for low pressure work. JVC, correct me if I'm wrong, your system came with a standard bite mouthpiece reg, didn't it? Another option is to try a different mask. There are a couple of mask that will allow you to put your own reg in them. ScubaPro, Mantis and the M-48. These might be some other options. I understand that you already have the Neptune. You could try a light film of diluted unscented baby shampoo, Seadrop or something.

The last time I dived an Ocean Reef, it fogged on me as well. The water temp was 54F. I had one little spot that was clear where I could see my gauges to the inside of my right eye. I was told that I wasn't diving the mask correctly. This was a bit of a hit to my ego, I kinda thought I knew a little about full face masks. But still, I'd rather blame it on the equipment.