Another Eagles Nest fatality

[lv2dive]

Is it unusual for normoxic trained cavern divers to use Rebreathers to a depth of 200 ft? Is it a cavern or cave at that planned depth?

Cave dive in most people's books - I believe the NSS-CDS has, in the fairly recent past, issued a statement consistent with that thinking, specifically referencing Eagle's Nest - @Capt Jim Wyatt could perhaps speak to that?
EDIT: I see TotDoc posted the statement a few posts above this one! Good job sir!

"a planned dive of approx 200' " .....does this mean depth or distance ?

Depth in this case

 

[KevinNM]

It certainly sounds like some of the divers probably shouldn't have been there, but it also sounds like this was more of a CCR/gas/medical issue than an unqualified diver in a cave issue.

The whole 'diver 1 aborted dive and returned to the surface alone' thing strikes me as unwise as hell, but also doesn't seem to have contributed to the accident.

 

[Daedalus]

Bringing a diver without full cave training and significant cave diving experience to Eagle's Nest suggests to me a failure in judgment before the group even got wet.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Bringing a diver without full cave training and significant cave diving experience to Eagle's Nest suggests to me a failure in judgment before the group even got wet.

That pretty much says it all. There is NO cavern zone at Eagles' Nest. @lv2dive

 

[Jax]

If one ASSUMES a rule of "no cavern in Eagle's Nest" . . .

Was breaking the rule a contributing factor to the death?

In other words, if they were in clear, open water, say on a wreck, at 200', would the incident still have happened?

It does not - from the initial reports - sound like the location / cavern / training / experience had any contribution to this accident.

 

[kensuf]

The echo chamber that will generate a bunch of noise about this would never have been fed if they respected their training limitations.

 

[Daedalus]

There is no cavern at Eagle's Nest. This has been a site for experienced trained full cave divers since it reopened in 2003 regardless of what people too cheap to go to Blue Grotto claim when they abuse the site. There's a shocking level of disconnect between the people who worked hard 15 years ago to open the site and the people who abuse it now. Anyone who brings an unqualified diver here (instructor or otherwise) should be bastinadoed (metaphorically).

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Was breaking the rule a contributing factor to the death?
In other words, if they were in clear, open water, say on a wreck, at 200', would the incident still have happened?
It does not - from the initial reports - sound like the location / cavern / training / experience had any contribution to this accident.

I strongly disagree Jax.

If at 200 feet in open water the diver would have had direct access to the surface - at 200 feet in Eagles Nest there is no direct access to the surface & the diver has to swim for several minutes to find the exit point, if it was even visible. Couple this with not being cave trained to deal with how to locate an exit point that may or may not be visible & it is a recipe for disaster.

The fact that these divers, as a group and individually were willing to plan a cave dive to 200 feet of depth accompanied by a diver who was not cave trained also speaks volumes about their attitude.

 

[cerich]

I strongly disagree Jax.

If at 200 feet in open water the diver would have had direct access to the surface - at 200 feet in Eagles Nest there is no direct access to the surface & the diver has to swim for several minutes to find the exit point, if it was even visible. Couple this with not being cave trained to deal with how to locate an exit point that may or may not be visible & it is a recipe for disaster.

The fact that these divers, as a group and individually were willing to plan a cave dive to 200 feet of depth accompanied by a diver who was not cave trained also speaks volumes about their attitude.

I agree with your points strongly Jim, however I am not so sure that in this case it did lead to the death..or if the factors you rightfully pointed out contributed to the bad outcome after the initial issue that lead the deceased diver to bail out.

I tend to be a little vocal on accident analysis, and a skeptic when "wait until the ME report" is used to try and divert attention from the poor planning/execution of dives where something goes very badly. That said, based on what is out so far,waiting for the ME report,unless other details emerge (like the equipment inspection if done by neutral parties which is rare) is really important in this case.

 

[tbone1004]

I strongly disagree Jax.

If at 200 feet in open water the diver would have had direct access to the surface - at 200 feet in Eagles Nest there is no direct access to the surface & the diver has to swim for several minutes to find the exit point, if it was even visible. Couple this with not being cave trained to deal with how to locate an exit point that may or may not be visible & it is a recipe for disaster.

The fact that these divers, as a group and individually were willing to plan a cave dive to 200 feet of depth accompanied by a diver who was not cave trained also speaks volumes about their attitude.

I'm with Jax and Chris on this one. Based on what we know at this point, it doesn't sound like the training was a leading factor in this incident. Sounds like some sort of breathing gas issue whether caused by the gas itself, or the unit. What it doesn't sound like is that if he had been full cave trained, it would have changed anything.

Assuming Brandon's statement is accurate, the only way I can see the cave being a contributing factor is the travel time from where they noticed something wrong to the deco gas at 60-70ft. To hit 200ft in depth, they are no more than 150ft laterally away from a direct ascent, and assuming normal travel times if the mound didn't exist, that's 3 minutes kick over to the center, and 4 minutes ascent to the 70ft bottles. 5-6 minutes travel time with the mount, or not a whole lot more than they would have had if in OW assuming they were in a position that they could make a safe direct ascent.
They also got the diver to the deco bottles, so cave training wouldn't have changed any of that.

Now, where I do agree with you is the fact that it was a stupid dive plan, but I have to firmly disagree with you that based on the information provided, and assuming it is accurate, that it had anything to do with the outcome of this dive.