Another Eagles Nest fatality

[KevinNM]

There is no second chance to go back and do a proper investigation if it turns out that it was a staged scene. My BiL had a nephew die in Baltimore and the super-comptent Baltimore PD assumed it just another healthy 20some y/o dying of natural causes at home. With all his expensive stuff missing. It happens all the time, right? So no investigation, no attempt at evidence preservation. A few months later the ME's test show he was poisoned. Apparently he was drugged somewhere and they "helped him home" and stole his stuff, but they gave him a lethal dose accidentally.

 

[daduls]

it's freezing cold down here today. Not many folks are just going for a swim today, let alone get wet.

I agreed with this, then I started thinking about the dry suits and 7mm wetsuits sitting around in Florida closets.

Personally I don't get in water below 72.

It was in the 40's in Orlando last night.

 

[tridacna]

Where exactly did this happen?

 

[KevinNM]

Where exactly did this happen?

Not yet released. Will probably take a few days at least.

 

[PfcAJ]

Posted by Brandon Johnson on the Facebook:

"
To relevant medical parties and accident analysis:

Eagles Nest Fatality:

4 Hypoxic/Normoxic trained CCR Divers, some cave, some cavern, entered the water as a buddy team around 12:30 EST to execute a planned dive of approx 200', circle the cavern zone on ascent, deco, and return to exit.
At approximately 12:35, Diver #1 suffered an ADV failure and aborted the dive, returning to surface.
The 3 remaining divers chose to continue the dive.
The 3 divers reached planned depth, signaled "OK" and ended the dive, continuing upwards to 1st deco stop.
En route to 1st deco stop, casualty signaled something was wrong, started making a choking sound in his loop, and bailed out to open circuit.
Diver team continued with casualty on open circuit to 1st deco stop at 60-70'.
Upon reaching deco stop, casualty became unconscious. Remaining two divers provided assistance by physical contact and keeping regulator in mouth.
Casualty stopped moving entirely and divers believed no further help could be provided, maintained regulator in mouth and began ascent with casualty.
Around 40' stop and 1:20 PM, casualty buoyancy (drysuit, wing, backmounted counterlungs) became difficult to handle and divers made the decision to send casualty to surface via buoyant ascent.
1:25 PM diver who aborted dive noticed casualty floating on surface, called 911, and swam out to recover casualty.
Casualty was dragged to waterway exit (staircase) while EMS was inbound.
Casualty was frothing at the mouth, cold, cyanotic, not breathing with no pulse.
EMS arrived within 20 minutes, provided medical assistance and called casualty deceased roughly around 2:00 PM.
Divers in deco finished their decompression stops and surfaced to aid in recovery.
Shortly after 2:50 PM, I arrived on scene, followed by Detective and Medical Examiner.
Statements were taken, ME provided examination, and diver team was released.
No further details. HCSO Investigation pending."

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Is it unusual for normoxic trained cavern divers to use Rebreathers to a depth of 200 ft? Is it a cavern or cave at that planned depth?

 

[Marie13]

Where on FB was this posted?

 

[scubafanatic]

Is it unusual for normoxic trained cavern divers to use Rebreathers to a depth of 200 ft? Is it a cavern or cave at that planned depth?

"a planned dive of approx 200' " .....does this mean depth or distance ?

 

[TotDoc]

Is it unusual for normoxic trained cavern divers to use Rebreathers to a depth of 200 ft? Is it a cavern or cave at that planned depth?

From IANTD's Rebreather Normoxic Trimix Diver course description:
"How deep can you dive with the IANTD Rebreather Normoxic Trimix Program?
Rebreather Normoxic Trimix Diver Programs may be conducted to a maximum depth of 200 fsw (60 msw)."

I'm not sure what they are allowing for dil pO2 at depth for this program.

I have the TDI Helitrox CCR rating, which is 150ft using 21/20 dil. TDI standards limit dil pO2 to 1.2 at max depth, so their trimix CCR that gets you to 200ft uses 16% O2 in the dil. I guess I had always thought that was considered hypoxic, but maybe not. When I think of hypoxic trimix for CCR, I usually think of something like 10/70. Maybe they figure that you can still technically breathe 16% at the surface and not pass out from hypoxia, so it's still normoxic?

But as far as the cavern vs cave - there is no cavern at Eagle's Nest. My understand was that after the father and son died there on Christmas day a couple years back, the NSS-CDS, IUCRR, and the NACD discussed access to Eagles Nest, and they determined that the ballroom is a cave zone, the cave zone starts at the top of the solution tube

And then there's this from the NSS-CDS: (Statement from the NSS-CDS Training Committee on Eagles' Nest - NSS CDS)
Statement from the NSS-CDS Training Committee on Eagles’ Nest
The NSS-CDS does not now nor will it ever condone the training of any student at Eagles' Nest except under the following conditions:

The student is a fully certified cave diver and the student is either trimix certified or undergoing trimix training with an instructor who is a trimix certified instructor and is in the cave with them. We do not approve or condone training anyone in Eagles' Nest for courses such as Advanced Nitrox, or Decompression Procedures even if the student is a fully certified cave diver.

These classes must not be taught at Eagles' Nest.

There is no cavern zone at Eagles' Nest.

 

[TotDoc]

For those of you not familiar with Eagles Nest, here's my explanation I initially posted on cavediver.net

I had a hard time wrapping my brain around what the entrance room to Eagle's Nest was until I had seen it first hand. It's really quite different than anywhere else I had been, and it was quite an awesome experience. As even the depth of the entrance room of Eagle's Nest quickly goes above my level of training, that's all the further I have gone in that system. But based on what I saw, I can understand why people can convince themselves that it is a cavern area, though the sheer size of the area and the conditions found in there make it much more advanced than any cavern area has a right to be. It is absolutely to be approached as a cave dive.

Eagles nest is a little unique in regards to its entrance - it drops you right in the middle of the cave. You come into the cave by a solution tube that drops you into a large entrance room. The tube opens into the room at around 70 feet, and you are in a large room with a big debris cone below you. The top of the cone sits around 120 feet, and the edges of the cone at the bottom of the room dip to around 200 feet. That room is about 300 feet across. From that room, you can continue upstream or downstream into the "cave." Of course, where the edges of the entrance room end and the beginning of the upstream/downstream sections really begin seems kind of arbitrary - it still looks like rather large passage going both directions at that point. I think people consider the entrance room to be a cavern because it "feels" like you are going into a sinkhole, but in reality, you are just dropping right into the middle of a massive cave system. When viz is good, not only in the cave, but also in the surface pool, you can see the light from the surface coming down the solution tube. This is not always the case. I guess that also lulls people into considering this a "cavern" area, since there is sometimes visible light from the surface.

I had the good fortune of going there when viz was fantastic, and the light from the solution tube was clearly seen from the top of the debris cone. Of course, when you move out towards the edges of the room, which are a good 150 feet in any direction, you quickly lose sight of the light from the surface. I'm not sure exactly how far out we were when the surface light was no longer visible, but that's the point - that can change quickly, based on your position in the cave, or the conditions. That doesn't really give a cavern kind of vibe to me.