Another DFW dive shop closing
- Thread starter texdiveguy
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Debraw
Contributor
Well my initial reaction is I was surprised to hear this. Once I started to think about though, I am not surprised. Richard and I have a mutual respect for each other and often talked on the phone. I believe he was as tired as I was, he just lasted 6 months longer than me......
FIXXERVI6
Contributor
As a former shop owner, do you think a big frustration comes out of the sheer number of shops in DFW and the compition that causes?
I'm curious where most of these shop headaches spawn from, people like me, the general recreational public, shop competition, etc etc.
Maybe not the best question to ask in a public forum but I'm really curious where the primary source of headache comes from.
I have my thoughts on the Austin market, but I'll defer to the DFW folks before adding my 2 psi.
According to my shop the 2 major headaches come from either the manufacturers making ridiculous restrictions or it is the "tire kicker" clients that come in, take all your time looking at stuff and then go buy it over the internet thus giving no means for the local shop to stay in business (all that being said, we excluded the tax man).
I'm not in the DFW area, but here's my take with working with two different local shops.
The first shop was a husband and wife team. When I first started working with them they were very busy. During the summer and even the fall months were were running two classes to open water a month. They would often get to the shop around 6AM and wouldn't leave until around midnight. They did the majority of the teaching and would try to get some gear sales in the process. Being around here there really isn't that good of a variety of diving, so the majority of people taking the classes were vacation divers that may do a trip a year or maybe just wanted to get certified for a single trip. They also took the extra burden of extra cost and time to provide their clients with a warmer open water in Balmorhea. Which from here is a 6 hour drive. It made for very long weekends when you would leave the shop Friday evening at around 7PM and wouldn't get back at the shop until Sunday evening at around 9PM.
They sold their shop about a year and half ago. They were very burned out on the long days with not alot of compensation.
The shop that I'm currently working at is a older single man. He's been diving since 1976 and has been running his shop for over 20 years. Nowadays he mainly focuses on the shop operations, retail, and teaching the class room portion of the classes. For the confined water and open water he farms out the classes to a couple different instructors, which he compensates. He works a somewhat normal schedule, 10AM - 6PM Monday - Saturday. He's definitely more relaxed than the owners of the other shop that I worked for. He has worked one class from start to finish since I've started working with him. He also appears to make a good balance of providing good customer service along with doing what makes sense for his business financially.
The biggest competition for brick and mortar shops isn't the other brick and mortar shops. All these shops are providing more divers to the market, which provides a larger potential customer base. The biggest competition for the brick and mortar shops is the online retail market and the other recreational sports shops, such as dirt bikes, atv's, fishing, camping, etc . For the shop owners that don't offer an online presence for sales have to learn to adapt, which almost always means having a higher priced goods to compensate for the lower sale numbers and you have to remain customer service oriented, even if your customers choose to buy from online retailers. It's frustrating for the shop owners to have somebody come into the shop with gear that they bought online, but you have to keep your smile and try to keep the customer a customer rather than push that customer to online sales exclusively. After all a lot of people are fixed on a particular brand or maybe wants a type of gear that the LDS doesn't sale. I believe that the shop owner that I work with now does this well and for that I try to buy from him when possible. He mainly sells purely recreational gear and I dive purely in a backplate and wing. That doesn't mean that I can't buy hoses, regulators, tanks, etc from him and he understands that.
In the long run, however, I believe that the brick and mortar shops are going to have to create a business plan for offering products and services via an online presence. That means that they will have to choose vendors that allow shops to sell their products online or the vendors are going to have to modify their contracts to allow online gear sales. The face of scuba diving retail is changing, but the vendors aren't adapting to how people want to buy their gear.
The first shop was a husband and wife team. When I first started working with them they were very busy. During the summer and even the fall months were were running two classes to open water a month. They would often get to the shop around 6AM and wouldn't leave until around midnight. They did the majority of the teaching and would try to get some gear sales in the process. Being around here there really isn't that good of a variety of diving, so the majority of people taking the classes were vacation divers that may do a trip a year or maybe just wanted to get certified for a single trip. They also took the extra burden of extra cost and time to provide their clients with a warmer open water in Balmorhea. Which from here is a 6 hour drive. It made for very long weekends when you would leave the shop Friday evening at around 7PM and wouldn't get back at the shop until Sunday evening at around 9PM.
They sold their shop about a year and half ago. They were very burned out on the long days with not alot of compensation.
The shop that I'm currently working at is a older single man. He's been diving since 1976 and has been running his shop for over 20 years. Nowadays he mainly focuses on the shop operations, retail, and teaching the class room portion of the classes. For the confined water and open water he farms out the classes to a couple different instructors, which he compensates. He works a somewhat normal schedule, 10AM - 6PM Monday - Saturday. He's definitely more relaxed than the owners of the other shop that I worked for. He has worked one class from start to finish since I've started working with him. He also appears to make a good balance of providing good customer service along with doing what makes sense for his business financially.
The biggest competition for brick and mortar shops isn't the other brick and mortar shops. All these shops are providing more divers to the market, which provides a larger potential customer base. The biggest competition for the brick and mortar shops is the online retail market and the other recreational sports shops, such as dirt bikes, atv's, fishing, camping, etc . For the shop owners that don't offer an online presence for sales have to learn to adapt, which almost always means having a higher priced goods to compensate for the lower sale numbers and you have to remain customer service oriented, even if your customers choose to buy from online retailers. It's frustrating for the shop owners to have somebody come into the shop with gear that they bought online, but you have to keep your smile and try to keep the customer a customer rather than push that customer to online sales exclusively. After all a lot of people are fixed on a particular brand or maybe wants a type of gear that the LDS doesn't sale. I believe that the shop owner that I work with now does this well and for that I try to buy from him when possible. He mainly sells purely recreational gear and I dive purely in a backplate and wing. That doesn't mean that I can't buy hoses, regulators, tanks, etc from him and he understands that.
In the long run, however, I believe that the brick and mortar shops are going to have to create a business plan for offering products and services via an online presence. That means that they will have to choose vendors that allow shops to sell their products online or the vendors are going to have to modify their contracts to allow online gear sales. The face of scuba diving retail is changing, but the vendors aren't adapting to how people want to buy their gear.
bperrybap
Contributor
I'm just a diver not a shop owner, but the biggest thing I notice in looking at their web page
is nowhere can I tell what is actually stocked in the store.
Sure I can see the companies that they carry, have reseller agreements with,
and can order for me, but I can't tell what is likely to be in the store for me to buy
and take home with me.
The web page doesn't take advantage of much of what could be done via WEB.
From my perspective, when I go into a store to make a purchase, I like to walk out with the
merchandise. If I have to order it and wait, I might as well buy it from an online retailer
and save the hassle of having to drive to the store twice
(once when I ordered it, an again to pick it up), not to mention that it can
in many cases also be cheaper from the online retailer.
And now in closing, once again they are missing an opportunity to take advantage
of the WEBs capabilities. There is no way for potential customers to see what
merchandise is available. I can't speak for others, but I'm not likely to drive across
town just to take a look at what might be available. Maybe there is something
good at a reduced price that I might buy, but I'm not going to make the drive
just to check it out.
Just a few of my thoughts.
--- bill
is nowhere can I tell what is actually stocked in the store.
Sure I can see the companies that they carry, have reseller agreements with,
and can order for me, but I can't tell what is likely to be in the store for me to buy
and take home with me.
The web page doesn't take advantage of much of what could be done via WEB.
From my perspective, when I go into a store to make a purchase, I like to walk out with the
merchandise. If I have to order it and wait, I might as well buy it from an online retailer
and save the hassle of having to drive to the store twice
(once when I ordered it, an again to pick it up), not to mention that it can
in many cases also be cheaper from the online retailer.
And now in closing, once again they are missing an opportunity to take advantage
of the WEBs capabilities. There is no way for potential customers to see what
merchandise is available. I can't speak for others, but I'm not likely to drive across
town just to take a look at what might be available. Maybe there is something
good at a reduced price that I might buy, but I'm not going to make the drive
just to check it out.
Just a few of my thoughts.
--- bill
I agree bill, it's all about the internet. Even if a store doesn't wish to sell gear online, they need to use their website to provide detailed information. And I don't mean use it as an advertising brochure, but *detailed* information. No, I'm not going to call and ask. I should be able to find out anything online that I could find out about calling, except I can do it 24/7.
Internet has the added benefit of no sales tax (if you buy from an out of state company). That can add up quick if you're buying $100's or $1,000's of equipment.
Just my perspective from the consumer side...
I don't know about manufacturer restrictions, but I wouldn't be surprised. Not sure where you're going with the tax thing, but local taxes are often offset by shipping costs if you're talking about sales tax. Buy something from a place like ScubaToys and you get to pay the sales tax plus shipping. If you're talking about Uncle Sam, property taxes, etc. we all pay those.
A fair number of items I'll buy locally. I'm loyal to the LDS's around here...well most of 'em. There's one I'd rather saw off my leg than walk into.
The bottom line is I'd much prefer to support the LDS's.For example, I buy things from our LDS's that I either need their expertise on or need to check the fit. Examples of what I might buy locally are regs, fins, my dry suit...or something I need fast like a new mask. Anything else and I'm shopping around for the best price. Doesn't matter if it's hardware, a vis, an air fill, etc. Someplaces have fill cards. Some charge $5 for a visual and others charge $20. Where do you think I'm going to get my tanks visually inspected?
Shop employees may think I'm only pumping them for info, but that's not the case. If they can come close to an online store price I'll buy the item from them, but if I can get less somewhere else I'm going to save the $...and if I can save 20%-30% by shopping online that's what I'm going to do. As much as I want to support local business I have to consider my budget too.
I once had a friend who made an offer on a new car. The salesman said that he wasn't going to make much money on the deal if he accepted it. My friend, Dave, said he wasn't there to make money for the car salesman. He was there to get the best deal he could for himself and his family. That's just the way it is.
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