An Open Letter of Personal Perspective to the Diving Industry by NetDoc

[The Chairman]

I read the judgement and it's as Omission and Scubagolf suggest. It was also against the local lawyers who should have known the law better and not against PADI per se.

 

[Scubagolf]

Attached is page 3 from the order. The word "severely" in paragraph 4 should have read "severally" meaning both are responsible to pay it. This was a relatively minor reimbursement sanction not intended to punish.

 

[Ayisha]

The best I've seen is that it was a 5 mil farmer john (2 piece) style wetsuit and none of the witnesses indicated that it was worn out. Even if it was brand new, I believe that 30 pounds and a steel tank would still be at least 10 pounds too much for a 120 pound kid and possibly much more.

Just for comparison, I am a little taller than the victim and a little lighter. When I used to wear a jacket style BC in fresh water with a HP steel 80, 2-piece 7 mm wetsuit, hood, neoprene socks, boots, and gloves, I wore 4 lbs.

With a 50 cf steel tank but a thinner wetsuit, I'd guess that he could have been even 25 lbs over weighted.

 

[Zippsy]

I read the judgement and it's as Omission, Scubagolf and Zippsy suggest. It was also against the local lawyers who should have known the law better and not against PADI per se.

I fixed that for you..

 

[demed]

For me the question is this:

If the instructor and shop had been insured by the PADI sponsored program, would they have taken these same actions?


IMHO, and strictly my opinion..... NO, not even close

Another extraterrestrial living in a different dimension and who reads only what he likes and ignores facts - Willis is the insurer of choice for all of PADI Asia Pacific - try another one next time.

I've been following this case for a while now..... because I think the outcome will affect most of us.

??? you work in a resort running DSDs all day?

I've tried to keep up with comments posted on SB and FB, as well as read all the court documents I have had access to.

I gotta say, I'm thoroughly confused when parties can't even agree on what type of wetsuit the poor child was wearing.

Why would the parties agree on anything if they are tangled in lawsuit?
Each side and party states what's most convenient - might want to chech police reports for the most (not absolute) objectivity)

Pete, I have personally slowed down on participation as more and more people have started contributing with their mouths.... listing things as FACT:, when they weren't even there and have obviously not taken the time to read everything that's available.

talking about yourself here?

---------- Post added December 27th, 2014 at 08:44 PM ----------

OK, I'll try to boil this down to zero

Again, these are only my observations and strictly my non professional opinion


Scenario 1

PADI Instructor - PADI sponsored insurance


If PADI were to settle for $800K, why would they demand to stay named in the case to help the plaintiff win a larger settlement against an instructor and shop insured by PADI?

Helping to win a larger settlement in this scenario would be ridiculous because it would harm the PADI publishing company and the Private Equity Firm (and shareholders).



Scenario 2

PADI Instructor - Willis Insurance (PADI competitor)

By settling for $800K and staying named in the case to help win a larger settlement against the shop and instructor, PADI is able to potentially serve a devastating blow to an insurance competitor in the process. ( and send a strong message )


This scenario is the most self serving to the Private Equity Firm and Shareholders that own the PADI publishing company.


-------------------


On a side note, Pete, my latest comments were not directed to you personally. I only named you as a response to your observation that some people have not been as active lately.

Then you wake up sweating and trembling, right?

You so do not understand the logic of court cases that it's next to impossible to answer you - as it has already been answered a million times but you choose to ignore the facts after hundreds of postings.

Willis is not an insurance competitor - they are the only PADI insurance partner for the Asia Pacific region
having settled with the plaintiff, PADI stayed in the proceeding to defend their program from the attacks of the defendands.

---------- Post added December 27th, 2014 at 08:50 PM ----------

Yes, sorry, PADIs lawyer was sanctioned and paid a fine. I don't understand what they did.

repeating a thousand times the same lie ignoring facts will not make it any truer

 

[PRO-FOUND]

CAT AMONG THE PIGEONS

PADI were correct in expelling the instructor ( he broke standards moreover common sense was not present either in my not humble opinion)
When I or my colleagues conduct either a PADI DSD or a Try Dive the limit for any diver/student is 12 kilos of weight ( we do not conduct Drysuit DSDs or Try Dives.
We will refuse a DSD or Try Dive if we feel the person requesting either is unfit / over weight to the extent we feel a dangerous situation is in the making.
We do not do this to cover ourselves, we do it because it makes sense.
Diving tuition should never be simply ABOUT THE MONEY EVER!

I have seen Dive shops take all comers for DSDs and Try Dives regardless of the physical condition of the client.

Clients who are out seriously out of breath from merely trying on a pair of fins WTF

Clients who need two weight belts joined together to fit their girth (which then have more lead on them than the used BCD can lift.) WTF

Clients wearing only a shorty wetsuit / Top in conditions where they should have a full suit, because the shop does not have a bottom half or full suit that fits them. WTF

As above the same for BCD. To small or to large for said client. WTF

If a potential client for DSDs Try DIves or full Open Water Course cannot put their own fins on without almost having an heart attack/ stroke he / she does not dive with us.


NOTE: All our student divers are kitted up in 7mm wetsuits 5mm boots. We use steel tanks only (dumpies) none have ever needed more than 12 kilos of lead, those who do full open water course end up either diving on 10 kilos or less by the time that they are certified. They never need ankle weights.
All open water students also receive, if they wish, a 2/3 hour in depth and hands on explanation of dive equipment purchasing (we do not sell equipment at our Dive School) they can also contact us at anytime either their certifying instructor or any of our instructors in regard to any dive related subject. We have 70 percent repeat business and high word of mouth recommendations.

 

[The Chairman]

Willis is not an insurance competitor - they are the only PADI insurance partner for the Asia Pacific region

This is something I had not realized until it was mentioned earlier. It's one of those inconvenient facts for the conspiracy theorists. Is Willis also pulling it's Asia Pacific region insurance coverage? I was covered by them and was sad to see them leave the American Scuba market.

 

[Zippsy]

Willis is not an insurance competitor - they are the only PADI insurance partner for the Asia Pacific region...

Sort of, kind of, maybe, who knows?

This past year, PADI Asia Pacific requested that you use "V-Insurance Group". According to the website where you sign up for the insurance: "V-Insurance Group Pty Ltd is an authorised representative of Willis Australia Limited ABN"

What does that mean?

 

[Wookie]

repeating a thousand times the same lie ignoring facts will not make it any truer

What is the lie, that PADIs lawyers were sanctioned, or that I don't understand why?

---------- Post added December 28th, 2014 at 10:16 AM ----------

Willis is not an insurance competitor - they are the only PADI insurance partner for the Asia Pacific region

repeating a thousand times the same lie ignoring facts will not make it any truer

They only insure PRRA and individual members. Willis Canada insured boats, members, shops, basically anyone who had a liability in the dive business, so it isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison.

but because you say it doesn't make it so.

 

[RJP]

For me the question is this:

If the instructor and shop had been insured by the PADI sponsored program, would they have taken these same actions?


IMHO, and strictly my opinion..... NO, not even close

Why would that be? Are you at all familiar with V&B policy terms?

The V&B policy specifically excludes...

"Any claim arising out of any “occurrence” in which the insured left or permitted the uncertified student involved in the claim to be unattended during in-water instruction and/or testing"

AND

"Any claim arising out of any “occurrence” in which the insured failed to obtain a medical history form completed by the student involved in the claim, prior to in-water instruction; and in the case of a minor, the failure to have obtained the minor’s parent’s or guardian’s signature on the medical history form. Furthermore, this insurance does not apply if the medical history form indicated any condition contrary to safe participation in diving activities, and the insured failed to require the student to obtain medical approval (based on a medical examination) by a licensed physician, who is not the student, prior to in-water instruction"

AND

"Any claim arising out of any “occurrence” involving the insured’s conduct of an introductory experience program (any program designed to introduce uncertified divers to recreational scuba diving via a supervised, controlled open water dive experience) that was not in accordance with Recreational Scuba Training Council (RSTC) standards. This exclusion does not apply to confined water-only experiences being conducted by properly certified divemasters, assistant instructors and instructors."

Doesn't look like V&B would have been on the hook here one way or the other.