Do not do a CESA. Do a controlled ascent at no more than 30fpm while maintaining an open airway. There is no point in creating 2 victims.
An Experiment: let's pretend I died while diving
- Thread starter Jocasseegirl
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Do not do a CESA. Do a controlled ascent at no more than 30fpm while maintaining an open airway. There is no point in creating 2 victims.
Bottomfeeder Brodie
Contributor
We should start a " Dumb Mistakes" thread......I know I could add to that one!
Not that I'm calling anybody "dumb" but you know what I mean. Mine was dumb!
Not that I'm calling anybody "dumb" but you know what I mean. Mine was dumb!
Gilldiver
Contributor
In the real world most divers have no idea just what a 30 fpm ascent is, they will be heading up at 60 to 100 and think it is slow unless there is a computer beeping all the time. In a stressed situation, you have no chance of keeping any but the best trained divers at 30 fpm.
Want to do a 30 fmp ascent for practice?
Set a up line as best as you can streight up and down.
1) Grap the line with one hand and stretch the other up as far as you can. Hold that upper position and move your lower hand up.
2) Do this 2 times and you will have risen 10 to 12 feet up the line.
3) Now count slowly to 10 - 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, ....
Repet 3 times - you have just done a 30 fpm ascent.
Now have you buddy do it as you try to do a free ascent - You will now understand how hard it is to keep to 30 feet/minute in anything less then fully controled situations.
If you are low on air or out of air, get to the surface as best you can and under as much control as you can.
The boat can work on you if you are on the surface and alive. Dead on the bottom there is not much to do but a body recovery.
I do 10fpm ascents on almost every dive. I know how slow it can be...
She asked about bringing an unconscious diver to the surface, not low on air or out of air. I don't think anyone should risk life to try to save someone else's, especially if the chances of saving that other person are pretty slim anyway.
UnderSeaBumbleBee
Contributor
Yep that is correct. And most of the time when someone dies, gets hurt, or has a near miss it is because someone screwed up. The more we learn about what went wrong, how to not do what went wrong, or how to get out of our screw up and live, the safer we become as divers.
I think it is good for us to talk about our mistakes--even when someone life is losts--perhaps even more so.
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Well, partly correct.....
In most incidents, there is usually more than one mistake and often more than one person making those mistakes. This is true in the scenario of the OP.
When we can talk about specifics, I would agree. Unfortunately, most incidents involving fatalities are often short on details and the only thing we can know without a doubt is someone screwed up.
I agree there is value in discussing and analyzing mistakes, but once the basic causes of death have been established, is there really much more to be learned?
Most recreational incidents result from:
- Health issues(unknown physical condition, conditions exceed physical ability)
- Panic(poor training or diving beyond ones skill, situational awareness)
- Uncontrolled ascents(bad buoyancy control, situational awareness)
- Entanglement resulting in OOA(buddy skills, situational awareness)
- Gear failure resulting in OOA(gear, buddy skills, training, situational awareness)
- OOA (gas management+buddy skills+lacking skill to do CESA)
A breakdown in the buddy team is usually a contributing factor. The phrase "buddy was found" is far more prevalent than "buddy was observed....".
At the recreational level, I see incidents as more a confirmation of what we know than as something we can learn from. At the technical level, it can be a different story.
I feel discussion of the skills and procedures which can prevent such incidents from occurring is worthwhile, but question what added value speculation brings in the context of an actual incident.
OP
I just finished reading a thread in which someone experienced trouble on the surface, and she described what happened and how someone helped her out of it. I found it to be interesting reading - to learn from someone else's mistakes is invaluable - hence, my hesitance to do much speculation when a diver has died. In most cases, the main witness is no longer here to testify. For example, if I die in a car accident, some could speculate that I was on my cell phone, checking my iPod, had been drinking . . . we could probably name 20 possibilities. Drinking would probably be easy to establish with an autopsy, but the others would be wild guesses which my family would probably take great exception to if it were discussed on an open forum.
The point of my thread was to show that there are many potential causes for an accident in the water - some obvious - some not so obvious. I would prefer to read and learn from mistakes others have made who have lived to tell about it, rather than speculating on what a deceased diver may or may not have done that contributed to his/her death. This is why the families consider such threads to be disrespectful.
OK . . . I'm gonna hush now.
Bottom line, y'all be SAFE and SMART when you dive - I don't want to read about your death in the passings forum. 
poety
Registered
Hi, I'm a new diver and I have learned so much in this one thread! Just wanted to write out the main points I've picked up here. Please add if you have any!
1. never let your buddies get ahead of you (Sometimes I feel like Im chasing my buddies but Im always afraid they're going to leave me!)
2. Don't dive tired or hungry - I'm guilty of both of these but it won't ever be happening again!
3. Don't be embarrassed to stick your thumb up and call the dive.
4. Check in with all the buddies on the dive YOURSELF, don't count on someone else to watch the 3rd buddy. I did a dive and found one of my buddies had ascended and although I knew it was part of the plan, I was uncomfortable that they didn't signal me to let me know. I SHOULD HAVE been watching him.
5. GET A NOISE MAKER OR SOMETHING, I HAVE GONE WITH BUDDIES THAT DON'T HEAR ME CLINKING AWAY ON MY TANK!!!! This is the worst feeling ever when a buddy doesn't hear you
People have tried to sway me out of this one saying its dorky, but I'm getting one anyway.
6. In low viz keep your buddy visible and never leave another buddy on the bottom.
Thanks so much for all these pointers! Hugely important and I would never have known about them without reading this first.
1. never let your buddies get ahead of you (Sometimes I feel like Im chasing my buddies but Im always afraid they're going to leave me!)
2. Don't dive tired or hungry - I'm guilty of both of these but it won't ever be happening again!
3. Don't be embarrassed to stick your thumb up and call the dive.
4. Check in with all the buddies on the dive YOURSELF, don't count on someone else to watch the 3rd buddy. I did a dive and found one of my buddies had ascended and although I knew it was part of the plan, I was uncomfortable that they didn't signal me to let me know. I SHOULD HAVE been watching him.
5. GET A NOISE MAKER OR SOMETHING, I HAVE GONE WITH BUDDIES THAT DON'T HEAR ME CLINKING AWAY ON MY TANK!!!! This is the worst feeling ever when a buddy doesn't hear you
People have tried to sway me out of this one saying its dorky, but I'm getting one anyway.6. In low viz keep your buddy visible and never leave another buddy on the bottom.
Thanks so much for all these pointers! Hugely important and I would never have known about them without reading this first.
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