An Experiment: let's pretend I died while diving
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UnderSeaBumbleBee
Contributor
Ok it seems I can post a little information so here goes:
We had done a couple of dives on the other side of the lake and spent a lot of time lugging gear and were very hot and tired. This was the last dive of the day to drop off a plastic skelton. We were on a mission if you will. Mission diving is not the best idea--especially for newbs.
A brand new diver wanted to join us, so we let him come along. We decided to follow in a line. The new guy was in the middle and I was in the lead with Deb in the rear. The chair was too floaty and we should have scrapped it right away. It was extremly poor judgement to take the chair. One bad decision started a series of events that snow balled.
We started down, the slope. I did 2 kicks, stopped and signaled to New Guy and had him turn back to give Deb the OK sign, once she returned it--actually I could see her give it to him--vis was about 10-15--once she returned it to him then he would return it to me. We were fine for about 10-15 minutes of doing this, but one time I turned as she wasn't there. I did look back every 2 kicks. Our formation was a problem. I will never dive doing follow the leader again.
So I told new guy to sit on the bottom and I swam back trying to find her. Could not find her, so I did a quick search. I found her on the surface. We were in 30' of water.
Back to New Guy. I told him to look at his gauge and stay put on the bottom. So after I found her, then I had the problem of new guy on bottom. He was still sitting where I left him after I found Deb. That was also a bad decision to leave him. No not a bad decision--a REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD DECISION. What if she had been in greater distress?
It was a poor plan from start to finish. And if something had happened to her, since I am the one who made the plan, the greater part of that would have been my fault. The greater part of what happened was in fact my fault because I was the one who planned the dive.
And if you want to beat me up and say bad things about me on the internet--well that is ok because I deserve them to be said. Deb and New Diver shoulder the responsibility of going on this dive plan--you should never do a trust me dive or agree to a dive that is unsafe--so each of us have responsibility for our part in any ill fated dive.
So after she was back to shore, I found new diver on the bottom and we dropped of the stuff and then came back to shore. Another bad decision on my part. We should have come back to shore right away. There were many people on shore, so she was not alone, but still we should have got out of the water.
We had done a couple of dives on the other side of the lake and spent a lot of time lugging gear and were very hot and tired. This was the last dive of the day to drop off a plastic skelton. We were on a mission if you will. Mission diving is not the best idea--especially for newbs.
A brand new diver wanted to join us, so we let him come along. We decided to follow in a line. The new guy was in the middle and I was in the lead with Deb in the rear. The chair was too floaty and we should have scrapped it right away. It was extremly poor judgement to take the chair. One bad decision started a series of events that snow balled.
We started down, the slope. I did 2 kicks, stopped and signaled to New Guy and had him turn back to give Deb the OK sign, once she returned it--actually I could see her give it to him--vis was about 10-15--once she returned it to him then he would return it to me. We were fine for about 10-15 minutes of doing this, but one time I turned as she wasn't there. I did look back every 2 kicks. Our formation was a problem. I will never dive doing follow the leader again.
So I told new guy to sit on the bottom and I swam back trying to find her. Could not find her, so I did a quick search. I found her on the surface. We were in 30' of water.
Back to New Guy. I told him to look at his gauge and stay put on the bottom. So after I found her, then I had the problem of new guy on bottom. He was still sitting where I left him after I found Deb. That was also a bad decision to leave him. No not a bad decision--a REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD DECISION. What if she had been in greater distress?
It was a poor plan from start to finish. And if something had happened to her, since I am the one who made the plan, the greater part of that would have been my fault. The greater part of what happened was in fact my fault because I was the one who planned the dive.
And if you want to beat me up and say bad things about me on the internet--well that is ok because I deserve them to be said. Deb and New Diver shoulder the responsibility of going on this dive plan--you should never do a trust me dive or agree to a dive that is unsafe--so each of us have responsibility for our part in any ill fated dive.
So after she was back to shore, I found new diver on the bottom and we dropped of the stuff and then came back to shore. Another bad decision on my part. We should have come back to shore right away. There were many people on shore, so she was not alone, but still we should have got out of the water.
That's actually a circumstance I was faced with in Fundies -- I had one of my team members lose buoyancy control and go to the surface, and the other one wasn't paying attention to me, and I was faced with how to deal with the situation. I went to the surface, assuming the diver who had lost buoyancy control was more likely to be in trouble. I got my butt chewed for it. Team separation is never made better by making it worse; you should have signaled New Diver and taken him with you to search. But I'm sure you know that now.
Keeping a team together in very low viz is hard, and single file formation makes it nearly impossible. Without good lights, it's a real challenge, but wing on wing formation makes it easier (if it can ever be said to be easy).
Buddy separation terrifies me, because I make a commitment to the people with whom I dive, to do everything I can to make sure they surface safely. And when I have lost them, I have failed in my part.
Keeping a team together in very low viz is hard, and single file formation makes it nearly impossible. Without good lights, it's a real challenge, but wing on wing formation makes it easier (if it can ever be said to be easy).
Buddy separation terrifies me, because I make a commitment to the people with whom I dive, to do everything I can to make sure they surface safely. And when I have lost them, I have failed in my part.
The question still remains, why did Deb surface?
OP
Well, this thread didn't take the path I hoped it would. I was curious to find out what speculations would have been made if I had died, based on the facts as presented. Anyway, here is what happened - and I learned a huge lesson (so did Leah). So, actually, it has made me us much better divers. I have a great respect for water and what it can do. Here's what happened:
We were very tired after diving across the lake. We were also starving after 6 or so hours of diving, lugging gear, etc. We ate a big lunch right before the dive. We should have not even attempted this dive, and the biggest lesson I learned through all this was that I should have called the dive. I didn't feel like doing another dive, but I guess the excitement (and the opportunity) to do this one last thing overshadowed my judgment.
A big problem I was having all day was a very leaky mask. I was having to clear it very frequently. That was signpost #1 I should have paid attention to. I was very fatigued (signpost #2). I realized shortly after submerging that this plastic lawn chair took on all the aspects of a dead elephant underwater, but I was determined to get it to the bottom (signpost #3). The newb in front of me got his fin caught on the guideline, and he was madly shaking the line to release himself. I motioned for him to stop, finned over, and unhooked his fin. He took off like a bat out of hell. So, I raised my head to clear my mask (again), and it had so much water in it that it immediately went up my nose. At some point I decided to let go of the chair, which shot to the surface. The water in my nose choked me so badly that I gagged and dropped my reg. I'll admit that I did panic a little, because I forgot to purge my reg before I inhaled a huge breath of lake water. I tried to cough and recover - my body wouldn't let me respond (I later found out that it's a defense mechanism for your larynx to paralyze to prevent more water from coming into your lungs [correct me TSandM is that's not entirely accurate]). So, in the seconds immediately following, which seemed like minutes, I thought to myself "you gotta get to the surface." So I inflated and shot up like a rocket. Thank God I suffered no ill effects. What went wrong?
1. I was fatigued.
2. I was task-laden dragging that chair.
3. I was dealing with an equipment failur (leaky mask).
4. I was alone.
5. I paniced.
I think that pretty much covers it. Leah and I have talked about it on several occasions. That's why we are so dedicated to staying with each other - although I let her down on that one this past summer. I was hanging on a line with the guys who had just dove the lodge, Leah signaled up, and I let her go to the surface by herself from 70+ feet. Not only did she go alone, but I, too, had to go alone when it was time for me to surface. The fact that I was abandoning my dive buddy didn't even come to my mind. Stupid. We have both learned a lot - mistakes I will not repeat again.
I guess the point of my original post was to see what conclusions and speculations people would come up with if indeed I had died. Even Leah, who had been diving with me that day, probably couldn't have accounted to anyone accurately what really went down. She would only have had a few of the facts.
Looking back on it, though, I'm glad it happened. I certainly don't have a cavalier attitude about diving. It's fun, but it's serious business - and can be deadly serious if you don't pay attention to everything (your energy level, your equipment, your buddy, your head telling you that something is stupid). I hope that someone reading this will learn from this experience.
Be smart and be safe!
We were very tired after diving across the lake. We were also starving after 6 or so hours of diving, lugging gear, etc. We ate a big lunch right before the dive. We should have not even attempted this dive, and the biggest lesson I learned through all this was that I should have called the dive. I didn't feel like doing another dive, but I guess the excitement (and the opportunity) to do this one last thing overshadowed my judgment.
A big problem I was having all day was a very leaky mask. I was having to clear it very frequently. That was signpost #1 I should have paid attention to. I was very fatigued (signpost #2). I realized shortly after submerging that this plastic lawn chair took on all the aspects of a dead elephant underwater, but I was determined to get it to the bottom (signpost #3). The newb in front of me got his fin caught on the guideline, and he was madly shaking the line to release himself. I motioned for him to stop, finned over, and unhooked his fin. He took off like a bat out of hell. So, I raised my head to clear my mask (again), and it had so much water in it that it immediately went up my nose. At some point I decided to let go of the chair, which shot to the surface. The water in my nose choked me so badly that I gagged and dropped my reg. I'll admit that I did panic a little, because I forgot to purge my reg before I inhaled a huge breath of lake water. I tried to cough and recover - my body wouldn't let me respond (I later found out that it's a defense mechanism for your larynx to paralyze to prevent more water from coming into your lungs [correct me TSandM is that's not entirely accurate]). So, in the seconds immediately following, which seemed like minutes, I thought to myself "you gotta get to the surface." So I inflated and shot up like a rocket. Thank God I suffered no ill effects. What went wrong?
1. I was fatigued.
2. I was task-laden dragging that chair.
3. I was dealing with an equipment failur (leaky mask).
4. I was alone.
5. I paniced.
I think that pretty much covers it. Leah and I have talked about it on several occasions. That's why we are so dedicated to staying with each other - although I let her down on that one this past summer. I was hanging on a line with the guys who had just dove the lodge, Leah signaled up, and I let her go to the surface by herself from 70+ feet. Not only did she go alone, but I, too, had to go alone when it was time for me to surface. The fact that I was abandoning my dive buddy didn't even come to my mind. Stupid. We have both learned a lot - mistakes I will not repeat again.
I guess the point of my original post was to see what conclusions and speculations people would come up with if indeed I had died. Even Leah, who had been diving with me that day, probably couldn't have accounted to anyone accurately what really went down. She would only have had a few of the facts.
Looking back on it, though, I'm glad it happened. I certainly don't have a cavalier attitude about diving. It's fun, but it's serious business - and can be deadly serious if you don't pay attention to everything (your energy level, your equipment, your buddy, your head telling you that something is stupid). I hope that someone reading this will learn from this experience.
Be smart and be safe!
jefffalcone
Contributor
I had a similar experience in fundies. One team mate on the surface, and the other at 20 feet while were supposed to be making a 30 second stop at 10 feet on our descent, and I was team captain responsible for leading the dive. Fortunately I had been chewed out a couple of times for not maintaining contact with my team. The only thing I knew to do was thumb the dive. I went to the diver who was beneath me and held my thumb in his face until he got the picture and started to ascend. I figured the diver on the surface had access to an unlimited air supply, so the most important thing was to bring the other diver with me to the surface. Padi teaches that if you become separated from your buddy you should look for a minute and then surface. This is just the wrong way to think. In fundies they make you realize that you simply can not get separated from your team for any length of time. Not for one second. The idea that it is somehow safe to loose contact with your team for an entire minute is ridiculous. What if your buddy is OOA or even worse unconscious during that minute? Sure chances are that everything is fine, but who wants to be there the time that everything isn't fine.
It sounds like the OP has thought a lot about these things since this happened and is on the right track.
The problem with this thread (why it didn't get the results you were hoping for) is you didn't let it go long enough before revealing more information. Some people are still discussing Mark Fyvie's death over on TDS and that happened a few months ago. Your original post didn't really reveal a lot of information. Leah clarified some things in her post. She should have stopped at the point she found you on the surface and went on from there. She is correct to state it was a bad decision to leave NEW GUY on the bottom. Had you actually been unconscious on the surface, what would she have done? Instinctively, she would have rushed to get you to the surface and probably even forgotten NEW GUY was 30' below the surface still waiting. And maybe he would have drowned because he wasn't paying attention to his spg.
Based on a version of the story similar to what I just outlined, I would have speculated that you had issues with the chair, but only after asking a few questions - the condition of the line after the incident (was it cut, tangled, etc), the location of the chair, how much air in your BCD, what kind of ascent does your computer show you doing, etc. After getting answers to those questions I'd speculate panic due to task loading and, as it turns out, be correct.
If anyone is interested in learning about mistakes made where death did not result, check out this link. It focuses on cave diving, but it's a great teaching tool. All of the incidents are submitted by divers who experienced them. Be prepared to sit and read for a while.
Based on a version of the story similar to what I just outlined, I would have speculated that you had issues with the chair, but only after asking a few questions - the condition of the line after the incident (was it cut, tangled, etc), the location of the chair, how much air in your BCD, what kind of ascent does your computer show you doing, etc. After getting answers to those questions I'd speculate panic due to task loading and, as it turns out, be correct.
If anyone is interested in learning about mistakes made where death did not result, check out this link. It focuses on cave diving, but it's a great teaching tool. All of the incidents are submitted by divers who experienced them. Be prepared to sit and read for a while.
I would be very surprised if there is a diver on this board with more than a handful of dives, who hasn't made some mistakes and doesn't have some things they've done they aren't proud of. What's great is that some people are courageous enough to post about the situations they've gotten into and the errors they've made, in the hopes of saving someone else from having to reinvent the wheel.
Nobody can be prepared for all the possible new things they can run into while diving, and although some people make better decisions than others, we can all have our not-so-brilliant days.
Nobody can be prepared for all the possible new things they can run into while diving, and although some people make better decisions than others, we can all have our not-so-brilliant days.
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