An Experiment: let's pretend I died while diving

[Tigerman]

I would be very surprised if there is a diver on this board with more than a handful of dives, who hasn't made some mistakes and doesn't have some things they've done they aren't proud of. What's great is that some people are courageous enough to post about the situations they've gotten into and the errors they've made, in the hopes of saving someone else from having to reinvent the wheel.

Nobody can be prepared for all the possible new things they can run into while diving, and although some people make better decisions than others, we can all have our not-so-brilliant days.

To err is human..
To correct the mistakes, realizing what mistakes you made and think through and discuss them is what make us better divers.
Fortunately I havent had any bad ones yet, although I have been the buddy of someone who could easily have gotten bent.
Theres not much time to decide what you should do when the brown stuff hit a certain fan.
Wether or not our speculations with regards to how incidents occur is correct is in my opinion not the major part of it.
How we analyze and break down events, identifying obvious and not so obvious contributing factors and thinking "what ifs" thats the real lesson.
If we have 10 different ways an accident could have happened and none of them is wrong, it may still be one of those 10 things we discussed that set off a warning bell and saves us from getting into one of our own.

 

[Gilldiver]

I guess the point of my original post was to see what conclusions and speculations people would come up with if indeed I had died.

One problem with the conclusions and speculations that always come up - most of which seem to be "blame the dead guy" is that there are diving accidents and then there are accidents that happen while diving. Not all are the result of screwing up or getting bent.

In the past 47 years I have lost two friends from aneurysms and one from a heart attack. Now if any of these three had been diving, would it have been a diving accident? A lot would have depended on how good the post mortem was. Would the coroner have picked up on the brain aneurysms if all they thought they had was a simple drowning?

Your plot line has you doing a swim and diving in conditions where it would be natural to be stressed - higher blood pressure and rapid heart beat. So why did you die? Drowning, heart attack, popped a blood vessel, or just bad karma

 

[Jocasseegirl]

The problem with this thread (why it didn't get the results you were hoping for) is you didn't let it go long enough before revealing more information.

Yeah, I didn't want Leah to beat me to the punch

 

[Jocasseegirl]

One problem with the conclusions and speculations that always come up - most of which seem to be "blame the dead guy" is that there are diving accidents and then there are accidents that happen while diving. Not all are the result of screwing up or getting bent.

In the past 47 years I have lost two friends from aneurysms and one from a heart attack. Now if any of these three had been diving, would it have been a diving accident? A lot would have depended on how good the post mortem was. Would the coroner have picked up on the brain aneurysms if all they thought they had was a simple drowning?

Your plot line has you doing a swim and diving in conditions where it would be natural to be stressed - higher blood pressure and rapid heart beat. So why did you die? Drowning, heart attack, popped a blood vessel, or just bad karma

EXACTLY . . . which is why I started this thread. Speculation is fine, but most of the time the people left alive don't know all the facts. In my case, it was multiple things that all added up to near disaster. As my friend Jackie Smith used to say "it's not one thing that gets you - it's usually multiple things." However, if our discussions lead to safety - and not just some cowboy spouting off "well, he must have been out of shape and shouldn't have been diving," then it can be a valuable learning tool.

 

[Teamcasa]

Well, this thread didn't take the path I hoped it would. I was curious to find out what speculations would have been made if I had died, based on the facts as presented. Anyway, here is what happened - and I learned a huge lesson (so did Leah). So, actually, it has made me us much better divers. I have a great respect for water and what it can do. .. . I hope that someone reading this will learn from this experience.

Be smart and be safe!

Thank you for posting this.
You are incredibility brave to share this experience with us. You, Leah the new guy and the rest of us learn from sharing information exactly like this.

I hope I speak for all of us when I say that I’m glad we did not read this in the Accidents or Incidents or the Passings forums.

 

[Jocasseegirl]

Thank you for posting this.
You are incredibility brave to share this experience with us. You, Leah the new guy and the rest of us learn from sharing information exactly like this.

I hope I speak for all of us when I say that I’m glad we did not read this in the Accidents or Incidents or the Passings forums.

When I screw up, I'll admit it . . . but I'll never forget it!

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

Here is the point of this thread and why we need the accident forum. Mistakes were in fact made. Had Deb died, I am sure someone at the rampl would have posted what they knew or heard. I am certain I would have been debriefed at the ramp and a newspaper article to follow.

What is wrong with people talking about the what ifs? No they might not have got all the facts correct. And I could have come out looking very bad--while already feeling bad about helping to kill my buddy. But what is wrong with that if the chat helps someone else go home alive from a dive? They could have talked about 50 different things that coule have gone wrong to make things turn out the way they did and then talk about 100 different ways to handle those 50 problems.

If it were a court of law, where I might get to go to jail and be someone's girlfriend or boyfriend whatever the deal is in prison--I know there is a deal that I don't want to learn more about--Anyway since only my feelings as the alive diver or the feelings of the dead divers family are on the line, I think it is ok to discuss so that others can learn and perhaps live.

By the way--we do reg recovery every dive now as well as an air share and mask flood. We have even started doing short swims sans mask while being led by our buddy. I will not dive with anyone who isn't willing to do a few skills with me. I want to know that they can get their reg back in their mouth. I also want to make sure I am not having such an off day that I can't do it myself.

I have linked to this thread before, but I think it is worth linking to again

106'Deep in trouble narked, buddies wave bye bye after trouble and up signs - SingleDivers.com Surface Interval INDEX

Most of the time when someone dies there were mistakes made that could have been avoided. Not always, but in many many cases. As noted in the dive above that Deb and I did during my first season of diving as well as this one in the link.

And even if it is medical event, you know you can learn from those too. What would I do if my buddy had a major medical event? Is there any way when we speculate that someone could give me an idea of what to do if my buddy had a heart attack or stroke? By the way Deb, strokes run in my family FYI and I had a migrane last fall where I lost part of my vision for a few minutes. Never had that happen before and it freaked me out. So if that had happened under water and been more serious is there anything that my buddy could do for me?

 

[Jocasseegirl]

And even if it is medical event, you know you can learn from those too. What would I do if my buddy had a major medical event? Is there any way when we speculate that someone could give me an idea of what to do if my buddy had a heart attack or stroke? By the way Deb, strokes run in my family FYI and I had a migrane last fall where I lost part of my vision for a few minutes. Never had that happen before and it freaked me out. So if that had happened under water and been more serious is there anything that my buddy could do for me?

Good point, buddy. Let's talk about that. Since we keep a very close eye on each other during diving, hopefully I would immediately notice if something weren't right. Once again, we need to be so in tune to each other that we turn a dive without question if the other person thumbs up.

Anybody got any good suggestions about what either of us should do in the event that one of us goes unconsious under the water? I assume you will say to do a controlled emergency ascent, maintaining an open airway, to lessen the possible of lung overexpansion. Obviously, if someone is unconscious, you gotta get them to the surface ASAP. Anything I'm missing??

 

[Lightning Fish]

This was a good thread. Most people post about their errors, you posted about 'what if...', which was good. A lot of people dive single file -> so it also reinforces to me about the necessity of good buddy contact.

Cheers,
Bill.

 

[Lightning Fish]

And even if it is medical event, you know you can learn from those too. What would I do if my buddy had a major medical event? Is there any way when we speculate that someone could give me an idea of what to do if my buddy had a heart attack or stroke? By the way Deb, strokes run in my family FYI and I had a migrane last fall where I lost part of my vision for a few minutes. Never had that happen before and it freaked me out. So if that had happened under water and been more serious is there anything that my buddy could do for me?

You're lucky that your vision loss was only for a few minutes. Some migraine sufferers can lose their vison, or part of, for quite a while. Something to note though, a central nervous system dcs hit can present itself in a similar manner to a migraine. So you have to be aware of how your (that is your's, nor your buddy's nor friend's) typical migraine presents itself, and take into consideration your dive profile.

Cheers,
Bill.