American History X

[Walter]

read up on Wilson. you'll be surprised

Probably. Care to share the high points?

it was en executive order, fully within Lincoln's powers

I didn't say it wasn't within his powers, I said it exceeded his authority and was illegal. He did lots of illegal things that were obviously within his powers.

 

[H2Andy]

Probably. Care to share the high points?

scroll down to about 1/3 of the page:

http://www.chicora.org/woodrow_wilson.htm

 

[Walter]

Sounds like he was almost as bad as Lincoln, he did many of the same things. Thanks for the reference.

 

[H2Andy]

it seems that in times of war, Americans are willing to suspend large chunks of their civil liberties ...

can anyone say Patriot Act?

 

[Walter]

It's a terrible shame, but unfortunately, true.

 

[Mossman]

Isn't that the definition of a territory? Admittedly, it's the only territory mandated in Article 1, but it's certainly not a state. If it were a state, the 23rd Amendment would have not been necessary. In fact, the amendment clearly states it is not a state.

It's not a state. It's not a territory. It's a district. Territories are self-governed.

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;

Territories, on the other hand, are strictly defined and broken down into four categories. Wikipedia lists them comprehensively as follows, and you'll note that Washington and the District of Columbia are not included among them:

Incorporated unorganized territories

• Palmyra Atoll (when Hawaii became a state in 1959, Palmyra Atoll was explicitly separated from the state, but it remained an incorporated territory.)

Unincorporated organized territories

• Guam
• Northern Mariana Islands (commonwealth)
• Puerto Rico (commonwealth)
• United States Virgin Islands

Unincorporated unorganized territories

• American Samoa, technically unorganized, but self-governing under a constitution last revised in 1967
• Baker Island, uninhabited
• Howland Island, uninhabited
• Jarvis Island, uninhabited
• Johnston Atoll, no indigenous inhabitants, only military personnel and contractors
• Kingman Reef, uninhabited
• Midway Islands, no indigenous inhabitants, currently included in the Midway Atoll National Wildlife Refuge
• Navassa Island, uninhabited (claimed by Haiti)
• Wake Island, no indigenous inhabitants, only contractor personnel (claimed by the Marshall Islands

 

[Walter]

That's what Wikipedia says? Got any valid references?

 

[Mossman]

That's what Wikipedia says? Got any valid references?

Wikipedia is convenient. How is it invalid in this case? Do you believe that they accidentally left out Washington, D.C. because, (1) unlike uninhabited Kingman Reef, a densely populated district in the interior of the U.S. is easily forgettable, or (2) do you think it's a political maneuver and it was done deliberately, or (3) are you just trying to defend your incorrect and indefensible position by blowing smoke out your ears hoping for the distraction? Clearly the latter is the correct answer.

Washington, D.C. is not a territory, plain and simple. If you persist in your delusion that it is, even though a comprehensive and unassailable Wikipedia entry quickly dispels such a notion, perhaps you have some better references to back your position up?

Naw, I didn't think so. But thanks for playing.

 

[Walter]

Wikipedia is sometimes correct and sometimes full of crap. Its very nature guarantees it. When Wikipedia is the reference I don't bother to read the reference.

How do you define a "US Territory?" In the Constitution, the only thing I can find that comes close to defining a territory is "The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state." (Article IV if you're looking) That implies that a territory is literally "territory." Territory is any tract of land; region or district. If congress has defined it differently, please let me know.

 

[H2Andy]

basically, US territory is composed of states and federal districts (the only federal district is the District of Columbia, the "DC" in Washington DC). Washington DC (i.e. the District of Columbia) is not a state. National Parks are federal lands within the states.

there are other federal lands, within the 50 states, that are managed by Native American tribes under the supervision of the Department of the Interior. this land is "held in trust" by the US Government. contrary to public misconception, these lands are not "foreign jurisdictions" within the US. they are not. they are subject to US laws and Native Americans are US citizens.

then there are territories:

there is one incorporated territory (Palmyra Atoll).

there are thirteen unincorporated territories (Navassa Island, Puerto Rico, the United States Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Baker Island, Guam, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Johnston Atoll, Kingman Reef, Midway Atoll, the Northern Mariana Islands and Wake Atoll).

of these, two territories have the special status of Commonwealth: Puerto Rico and the Northern Mariana Islands

that's it.

any and all US territory in the entire universe fits into the above categories (state, federal district, federal land, or territory) or does not exist.

http://www.doi.gov/oia/Islandpages/political_types.htm