American fatality in Exumas, Bahamas

[AggieDiver]

Such assumptions being made about the unstated and far from what i think. and not what I said at all.

I do think they should be transparent about what happened, so divers can make up their own mind. Like I stated, I know they might have had zero culpability, but we don’t know that yet either.

And what the right guidelines are is far beyond me to determine, except I know I in that moment would have wanted transparency about what happened, what is known, and what is not known. I know I did not get it, and I know when others become hostile when the truth is shared, it is often not a good sign. Being asked to leave - absolutely not surprising at all, I agree.

I am advocating for an industry standard and a code of conduct to be defined and followed, and I would hope transparency would be part of that. Diver training makes my safety my responsibility. Which means I should have access to the information so I myself can make that determination, not have the dive shop make that assessment on my behalf.

That transparency you desire is unfortunately a casualty of the fact that many dive incidents end up in litigation these days. So anything they say or any speculation they offer to a bystander can come back to haunt them later in a courtroom. Add in the fact that watching somebody die is a very sobering moment for most people, and not everybody is going to want to talk to somebody about it, especially when their boss is telling them to move on and make sure the next day’s guests enjoy their dives.

 

[boulderjohn]

In many cases, the cause of the incident is simply unknown. Read the DAN fatality reports and you will see that. It is very common for a dive accident case to be closed without an autopsy, with drowning listed as the cause of death. We will not know what caused that drowning.

In one case I know well, an autopsy was done on a fatality in which a student taking an advanced class suddenly bolted to the surface, despite the instructor's attempt to stop her. She discarded her regulator on the way up. The final determination was that she had had a heart attack during the dive, after having had one a day or two before without knowing it. Feeling that she was not getting air from the regulator, she bolted to the surface and discarded the regulator. She is believed to have held her breath and gotten an air embolism along the way. So she had a heart attack and an air embolism, but the cause of death was drowning.

 

[DandyDon]

In many cases, the cause of the incident is simply unknown. Read the DAN fatality reports and you will see that. It is very common for a dive accident case to be closed without an autopsy, with drowning listed as the cause of death. We will not know what caused that drowning.

My daughter has my printed instructions on my end-of-life preferences which include Direct Cremation while avoiding funeral shops, where and how to bury my cremains, etc - but have an autopsy first. If I die on any trip, dive or otherwise, DAN will repatriate my body from wherever, so get the autopsy, then order the cremation. I'm a little paranoid about coverups.

The other three deaths you mentioned were caused by carbon monoxide in one of the rooms and had nothing to do with the dive op. REPORT: Carbon monoxide killed American visitors - The Nassau Guardian

I also try to get my daughter as well as anyone else I know to take a CO alarm on any overnight trip. Hotels seldom have those in the rooms, sometimes not even Smoke alarms, but they all have water heaters, probably have room heaters even in the Caribbean and Central America, and many of those are gas burner heaters. This paranoia of mine is commonly known to people I know.

 

[gamon]

My daughter has my printed instructions on my end-of-life preferences which include Direct Cremation while avoiding funeral shops

How the heck can you get cremated without using a funeral parlor? Is your daughter going to build a bonfire in her backyard or something?

 

[DandyDon]

How the heck can you get cremated without using a funeral parlor? Is your daughter going to build a bonfire in her backyard or something?

You don't need a funeral shop to order a cremation service. What is a Direct Cremation? - Cremation Society Of America

 

[sladerer]

Here is a recap from my perspective. I'm sharing this as I think it benefits everyone to know as much as possible and learn from every incident so we can all help prevent future injuries and deaths.
As I mentioned, there were 10 divers and 2 dive leaders on the boat, plus a mate and captain. 5 divers going on the deep dive (including me, my wife, 2 other divers we had already dived with during the week and the now deceased diver who was on his first dive with us). The dive leader for our group is an instructor, but he was working as a dive master on this dive.
A complete dive briefing was given, including dive details, safety, hand signal and recall procedures. The dive was planned and executed as a drift dive while the boat moved to a shallower area of the reef for the second group of divers. Our dive was to a max depth of about 110' (varied slightly between the group), all divers on air. We did an uneventful descent to about 100', moved across the reef to about 110', then turned and started our ascent at the 14 minute mark. I was mostly looking for photo opps and watching for my wife. The two of us ascended gradually to about 75' as we returned towards our entry point. I then noticed a diver a good bit above us and the dive leader signaling him to descend back to the group. When that diver did not react to the signal, I observed the dive leader ascend to him. grab his BCD, ask if he was OK and grab and look at the divers SPG. The diver appeared to be breathing at that point.
As my wife and I continued up to our safety stop the dive leader ascended to the surface with the apparently struggling diver. My wife and I completed our safety stop and at that point I noticed one of the other divers signaling to us to surface. When I reached the surface, the diver who signaled to us yelled "Help, he's unconscious". I immediately inflated my SMB, extended it into the air and waved it to signal for help while the dive leader and another diver supported the unconscious diver to keep his head above water. There was some chop and it took a few seconds until I spotted the dive boat making it's way to us. The boat was back to us in under 5 minutes and maneuvered directly to the unconscious diver. A civilian yacht was closer but continued past us with no pause. When the dive boat returned they threw out the tag line and then immediately worked to get the diver into the boat. I was furthest from the boat and boarded last, immediately removed my gear and joined the dive leader and diver who called for help in performing CPR. There was no pulse at that point - we continued taking turns providing chest compressions and supplying O2 while continuously clearing his airway of fluid. We confirmed a "pulse" while doing compressions, but otherwise no pulse was present.
The boat returned to retrieve the other divers, with the mate telling my wife there were no other boats available to get them.
Roughly 25 minutes from when I surfaced, we had the 2nd group on the boat. One of them announced he was a doctor and joined us doing CPR. We continued CPR to the dock and another 5+ minutes until the ambulance arrived. We changed out the O2 cylinder for a 2nd one en-route. When EMS arrived, it took them several minutes to get on board. They set up an AED but no pulse was detected while I was in hearing range. He never regained consciousness.

I was told post dive that the now deceased diver had poor buoyancy control throughout the dive, and that someone overheard him say prior to the dive it had been a number of years since his last dive but that he was a dive master. If true, he probably should not have been on our dive, or even on the boat prior to doing a refresher. Beyond that, the dive leader, crew and other capable divers all responded well, even "heroically" if you will, given CPR was performed for almost an hour. The dive leader and one of the other divers skipped their safety stops to respond and the other diver stated his DC wanted a couple minutes of deco. I believe it would be fair to question the decision to retrieve the other divers, but given the sea conditions and wind I believe that it was within reason to not risk any further divers.

If I was running things, I would have suspended diving the next day to do a thorough review with all hands to discuss the circumstances, decisions and allow all others associated with the shop and water sports team to take part. I would also provide time off to the involved staff to process and grieve. As I mentioned in another forum - while there was one fatality, it's fair to say their were multiple "victims", as every diver on that boat and all crew were impacted, if not traumatized, by the events.

To C3Diver - Showing up and interrogating the crew about the previous days events was a poor decision in my opinion. I would not expect the crew to share any details or speculations beyond the fact of the fatality. If a fatality the previous day created doubt, it was your right to cancel. Telling others what you knew to be factual is a judgement call on your part and I understand it, but being an instructor and having led many dives, I would never discuss details of an incident while an investigation was certainly ongoing.

 

[sladerer]

I am so sorry for this to have happened and that you had to experience it. As you may know, part of the Rescue Diver Class is learning to also take care of yourself after an experience like this. Pay attention to your mental state and talk to someone if that is needed. It is a very traumatic event all the way around. Thank you for stepping up and helping.

@peeweediver - I have taught SSI's Stress and Rescue class many times. I appreciate your kind thoughts. While we all hope to never experience this, I am processing the events and plan to discuss with my family physician who has been a flight surgeon in the USAF and is a diver.

 

[mmladerer]

I asked one of the managers to explain why it’s safe to dive if the cause of death is still unknown, to which there was no reply.

C3diver, as an in going investigation , they cannot say anything. Also, the crew , as you can imagine, took this very hard and I don't think they wanted to rehash it the next day. We spent enough time telling security and the Bahamain police. Chances are , they guy you were questioning was the dive master we had in the trip because when I called to check on him, he answered the phone. I would not have been there nor do I think anyone should have been. They need some time. Be respectful of them right now please. They were an amazing team and worked just as they should have.

 

[iain/hsm]

there should be a predefined standard and a code of conduct on how a dive shop should handle situations where the root cause remains unknown as a PADI dive shop.


.

There is. First off. Director in charge of operations will get the youngest deckhand and or local shop boy filler to change the compressor filters and oil, and drain the banks and all cylinders lying around at the same time. Then get him to refill the bank and refill any cylinders (tanks) using the fresh filter cartridge. Then sack said deckhand or shop boy filler off the site and re hire when the fuss is over.

 

[5cubaN00b]

Here is a recap from my perspective. I'm sharing this as I think it benefits everyone to know as much as possible and learn from every incident so we can all help prevent future injuries and deaths.
As I mentioned, there were 10 divers and 2 dive leaders on the boat, plus a mate and captain. 5 divers going on the deep dive (including me, my wife, 2 other divers we had already dived with during the week and the now deceased diver who was on his first dive with us). The dive leader for our group is an instructor, but he was working as a dive master on this dive.
A complete dive briefing was given, including dive details, safety, hand signal and recall procedures. The dive was planned and executed as a drift dive while the boat moved to a shallower area of the reef for the second group of divers. Our dive was to a max depth of about 110' (varied slightly between the group), all divers on air. We did an uneventful descent to about 100', moved across the reef to about 110', then turned and started our ascent at the 14 minute mark. I was mostly looking for photo opps and watching for my wife. The two of us ascended gradually to about 75' as we returned towards our entry point. I then noticed a diver a good bit above us and the dive leader signaling him to descend back to the group. When that diver did not react to the signal, I observed the dive leader ascend to him. grab his BCD, ask if he was OK and grab and look at the divers SPG. The diver appeared to be breathing at that point.
As my wife and I continued up to our safety stop the dive leader ascended to the surface with the apparently struggling diver. My wife and I completed our safety stop and at that point I noticed one of the other divers signaling to us to surface. When I reached the surface, the diver who signaled to us yelled "Help, he's unconscious". I immediately inflated my SMB, extended it into the air and waved it to signal for help while the dive leader and another diver supported the unconscious diver to keep his head above water. There was some chop and it took a few seconds until I spotted the dive boat making it's way to us. The boat was back to us in under 5 minutes and maneuvered directly to the unconscious diver. A civilian yacht was closer but continued past us with no pause. When the dive boat returned they threw out the tag line and then immediately worked to get the diver into the boat. I was furthest from the boat and boarded last, immediately removed my gear and joined the dive leader and diver who called for help in performing CPR. There was no pulse at that point - we continued taking turns providing chest compressions and supplying O2 while continuously clearing his airway of fluid. We confirmed a "pulse" while doing compressions, but otherwise no pulse was present.
The boat returned to retrieve the other divers, with the mate telling my wife there were no other boats available to get them.
Roughly 25 minutes from when I surfaced, we had the 2nd group on the boat. One of them announced he was a doctor and joined us doing CPR. We continued CPR to the dock and another 5+ minutes until the ambulance arrived. We changed out the O2 cylinder for a 2nd one en-route. When EMS arrived, it took them several minutes to get on board. They set up an AED but no pulse was detected while I was in hearing range. He never regained consciousness.

I was told post dive that the now deceased diver had poor buoyancy control throughout the dive, and that someone overheard him say prior to the dive it had been a number of years since his last dive but that he was a dive master. If true, he probably should not have been on our dive, or even on the boat prior to doing a refresher. Beyond that, the dive leader, crew and other capable divers all responded well, even "heroically" if you will, given CPR was performed for almost an hour. The dive leader and one of the other divers skipped their safety stops to respond and the other diver stated his DC wanted a couple minutes of deco. I believe it would be fair to question the decision to retrieve the other divers, but given the sea conditions and wind I believe that it was within reason to not risk any further divers.

If I was running things, I would have suspended diving the next day to do a thorough review with all hands to discuss the circumstances, decisions and allow all others associated with the shop and water sports team to take part. I would also provide time off to the involved staff to process and grieve. As I mentioned in another forum - while there was one fatality, it's fair to say their were multiple "victims", as every diver on that boat and all crew were impacted, if not traumatized, by the events.

To C3Diver - Showing up and interrogating the crew about the previous days events was a poor decision in my opinion. I would not expect the crew to share any details or speculations beyond the fact of the fatality. If a fatality the previous day created doubt, it was your right to cancel. Telling others what you knew to be factual is a judgement call on your part and I understand it, but being an instructor and having led many dives, I would never discuss details of an incident while an investigation was certainly ongoing.

@sladerer - Again I will say: I am so ever thankful to have been diving with you that day. You exhibited truly heroic actions with clear, concise decisions and actions that gave the decedent the best chances of survival. Unfortunately all of the effort didn’t secure the desired outcome for reasons beyond anyone’s control.

Questions for dive instructors and/or diver’s who work at “certified” dive shops (PADI, SSI…any): Are dive shops required to practice life saving first aid tactics monthly, quarterly or annually? If so, are they supposed to keep logs/records of such drills? Can Diver’s request to view?

This unfortunate experience has me questioning the best way to inquire with future dive shops about -their- safety skills, safety drills and first aid equipment practice. Dive shops make diver’s fill out health and ability questionnaires. But they (so far) have never offered me to check their abilities and safety practices.