BillaVista
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Below is the e-mail exchange I am currently having with DGX. I was surprised by the words chosen and the tone taken when addressing my questions - DGX have such a good reputation and have certainly been good to me in the past. Am I at fault here or is someone having a bad day? Grateful for your opinion / insight
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Hi DGX, I have some questions about regulators. I want to purchase a Hogarthian single tank configuration package. My requirements include: Cold water capable - including up to ice diving in Canada Environmentally sealed - we do a lot of diving in silty and mucky water 5 LP ports on a swivel turret - specifically I intend to use the 5th downward facing port for my long hose primary Strong preference for user-servicability - if manuals and parts kits are available to the public that's a huge plus. I have narrowed it down to:
Bill,
There are some conflicting requirements, and a bit of nonsense in your questions.
Cold water and ice diving are two different requirements. What specific temperature range do you actually require? The manufacturers of all the general purpose SCUBA regulators we stock describe them as suitable for use in warm, temperate and cold water conditions. Based on testing standards we define those water temperature ranges as follows:
• Warm water is greater than {68°F | 20°C} to a maximum of {90°F | 32°C}.
• Temperate water is between {68° to 50° F | 20° to 10° C}.
• Cold water is less than {50°F | 10°C} to a minimum of {40°F | 4°C}.
• Freezing water conditions below {40°F | 4°C} incurs significant additional risk that requires specialized training and specialized equipment.
Among the regulators we stock, only the Xstream series is described by Poseidon as suitable for diving under ice in freezing seawater conditions down to {29°F | -2°C}. However, the XTX series is a close second, described by Apeks as suitable for use down to {36°F | 2°C} and a popular choice among "ice divers".
Asking who are where something like a regulator set is made is like asking where a modern automobile is made... my answer is going to be pretty generic. As a general summary the DGX Gears XTRA and D6 are made in "Asia", with some minor components that may come from Europe depending one which specific item, and final assembly here in the US.
The DGX Gears regulators have full service manuals and parts available on our website. The Dive Rite products have parts on our website but manuals are only available to those who take their technicians course available to authorized dealers.
Read this discussion of the D6 vs Xtra... DGX Gears brand D6 and XTRA regulators | Dive Gear Express®
The DGX Gears D6 and Dive Rite XT are similar to virtually every other modern diaphram 1st stage... they are all virtually the same and servicablity is very similar. The Xtra will measurably outperform the D6 in bench tests under extreme conditions, but in sport depths to 150 fsw divers won't be able to detect a difference. I t is difficult to give you a meaningful answer regarding breathing performance of ANY of the primary regulators we sell, including our own DGX Gears brand, in relation to other specific brands or models we don't sell. However, perhaps we can put the performance issue in perspective: In reality, any modern balanced general purpose scuba regulator, designed to perform to EN 250 standards and properly maintained, is capable of delivering gas more than adequate for the needs of two sport divers (primary plus an octo). That's not to say there aren't poorly performing sport regulators in the market, but you can't buy them at Dive Gear Express.
Mark,
What an extremely odd choice of words – to call a customer’s questions “nonsense”! I’m curious – which part specifically was nonsense?
To clarify – I’m well aware of what ice diving is – I was certified as an ice diver in 1994. My last 3 ice dives were in fresh water lakes with a temperature of 36*F (2.2*C). I have used Sherwood, Scubaro, and Daycor regulators for ice diving. You are aware that regulator freeze ups are actually caused by the moisture in the air inside the tank and not primarily the temperature of the ambient water, right?
In any case – it seems your answer on temperatures relies entirely on manufacturer’s claims and doesn’t seem to be informed by any actual experience (yours or customers) so that’s a pity.
I do not understand your comparison to automobile manufacturing at all? It seems you’re rather defensive which is a little unsettling. I’m well aware of what “global supply chains” look like, but there are important differences. For example, the last car I bought was a FIAT which is Italian, but owned by FCA which is a global company BUT it is actually manufactured in Japan at the Mazda assembly line in Hiroshima, alongside their own Mazda MX-5. Is there a difference between it and other FIATs I have owned built in Italy? You’re darn right there is – the fit, finish, quality, engineering are far superior. To suggest that my question about origin is silly or “nonsense” is just rude and frankly, ignorant.
Thanks for the other info though.
You didn’t answer one of my most important questions though – namely is it possible to package the D6 first stage with a pair of XTRA second stages in a full Hogarthian kit? I want a sealed diaphragm first stage (DGX 6) but I also like the idea of (quote from your website) “The XTRA 2nd stage is a balanced fully adjustable second stage featuring metal internal components and increased resistance to freezing when cold water diving that also delivers reduced inhalation efforts at depth. If you are seeking a top-shelf performance regulator for extended range diving without a "big name-brand" price, then the XTRA merits serious consideration.” And if so, what would be the price. Just to be 100% clear – what I would be interested in is the DGX Custom - DGX Gears XTRA Single Tank Reg Package but with a D6 first stage substituted for the XTRA first stage.
Since you and I do not seem to be communicating well, I would be grateful if you could pass my question along to another associate – Teresa has been very kind and patient with me before, for example.
Thank you
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Hi DGX, I have some questions about regulators. I want to purchase a Hogarthian single tank configuration package. My requirements include: Cold water capable - including up to ice diving in Canada Environmentally sealed - we do a lot of diving in silty and mucky water 5 LP ports on a swivel turret - specifically I intend to use the 5th downward facing port for my long hose primary Strong preference for user-servicability - if manuals and parts kits are available to the public that's a huge plus. I have narrowed it down to:
- DGX Custom - DGX Gears D6 Single Tank Reg Package - seems to tick all the boxes at a very good price
- DGX Custom - DGX Gears XTRA Single Tank Reg Package - Upgrade from the D6, but I do not prefer the piston 1st stage
- DGX Custom - Dive Rite XT1/XT4 Single Tank Reg Package - seems to be a top performer - but I don't know if it is user serviceable. Most expensive option.
- Is the DGX Gears D6 Single Tank Reg Package a "budget" or "entry level" option or is it a top-performing regulator?
- Which of the three have service kits, parts, and manuals available to the public?
- Is there a meaningful difference between the XTRA and D6 second stages? If so - is it possible or a good idea to package the D6 first stage with a pair of XTRA second stages?
- What are the differences, if any, between the D6 package and the Dive-rite package? Is the dive Rite worth the extra or is it just branding?
- Which more well-known first stage is the D6 first most similar to?
- Who makes the D6 and XTRA first stages and where?
Bill,
There are some conflicting requirements, and a bit of nonsense in your questions.
Cold water and ice diving are two different requirements. What specific temperature range do you actually require? The manufacturers of all the general purpose SCUBA regulators we stock describe them as suitable for use in warm, temperate and cold water conditions. Based on testing standards we define those water temperature ranges as follows:
• Warm water is greater than {68°F | 20°C} to a maximum of {90°F | 32°C}.
• Temperate water is between {68° to 50° F | 20° to 10° C}.
• Cold water is less than {50°F | 10°C} to a minimum of {40°F | 4°C}.
• Freezing water conditions below {40°F | 4°C} incurs significant additional risk that requires specialized training and specialized equipment.
Among the regulators we stock, only the Xstream series is described by Poseidon as suitable for diving under ice in freezing seawater conditions down to {29°F | -2°C}. However, the XTX series is a close second, described by Apeks as suitable for use down to {36°F | 2°C} and a popular choice among "ice divers".
Asking who are where something like a regulator set is made is like asking where a modern automobile is made... my answer is going to be pretty generic. As a general summary the DGX Gears XTRA and D6 are made in "Asia", with some minor components that may come from Europe depending one which specific item, and final assembly here in the US.
The DGX Gears regulators have full service manuals and parts available on our website. The Dive Rite products have parts on our website but manuals are only available to those who take their technicians course available to authorized dealers.
Read this discussion of the D6 vs Xtra... DGX Gears brand D6 and XTRA regulators | Dive Gear Express®
The DGX Gears D6 and Dive Rite XT are similar to virtually every other modern diaphram 1st stage... they are all virtually the same and servicablity is very similar. The Xtra will measurably outperform the D6 in bench tests under extreme conditions, but in sport depths to 150 fsw divers won't be able to detect a difference. I t is difficult to give you a meaningful answer regarding breathing performance of ANY of the primary regulators we sell, including our own DGX Gears brand, in relation to other specific brands or models we don't sell. However, perhaps we can put the performance issue in perspective: In reality, any modern balanced general purpose scuba regulator, designed to perform to EN 250 standards and properly maintained, is capable of delivering gas more than adequate for the needs of two sport divers (primary plus an octo). That's not to say there aren't poorly performing sport regulators in the market, but you can't buy them at Dive Gear Express.
Mark,
What an extremely odd choice of words – to call a customer’s questions “nonsense”! I’m curious – which part specifically was nonsense?
To clarify – I’m well aware of what ice diving is – I was certified as an ice diver in 1994. My last 3 ice dives were in fresh water lakes with a temperature of 36*F (2.2*C). I have used Sherwood, Scubaro, and Daycor regulators for ice diving. You are aware that regulator freeze ups are actually caused by the moisture in the air inside the tank and not primarily the temperature of the ambient water, right?
In any case – it seems your answer on temperatures relies entirely on manufacturer’s claims and doesn’t seem to be informed by any actual experience (yours or customers) so that’s a pity.
I do not understand your comparison to automobile manufacturing at all? It seems you’re rather defensive which is a little unsettling. I’m well aware of what “global supply chains” look like, but there are important differences. For example, the last car I bought was a FIAT which is Italian, but owned by FCA which is a global company BUT it is actually manufactured in Japan at the Mazda assembly line in Hiroshima, alongside their own Mazda MX-5. Is there a difference between it and other FIATs I have owned built in Italy? You’re darn right there is – the fit, finish, quality, engineering are far superior. To suggest that my question about origin is silly or “nonsense” is just rude and frankly, ignorant.
Thanks for the other info though.
You didn’t answer one of my most important questions though – namely is it possible to package the D6 first stage with a pair of XTRA second stages in a full Hogarthian kit? I want a sealed diaphragm first stage (DGX 6) but I also like the idea of (quote from your website) “The XTRA 2nd stage is a balanced fully adjustable second stage featuring metal internal components and increased resistance to freezing when cold water diving that also delivers reduced inhalation efforts at depth. If you are seeking a top-shelf performance regulator for extended range diving without a "big name-brand" price, then the XTRA merits serious consideration.” And if so, what would be the price. Just to be 100% clear – what I would be interested in is the DGX Custom - DGX Gears XTRA Single Tank Reg Package but with a D6 first stage substituted for the XTRA first stage.
Since you and I do not seem to be communicating well, I would be grateful if you could pass my question along to another associate – Teresa has been very kind and patient with me before, for example.
Thank you
