Alternatives to Dive Rite LX 20

[tbone1004]

@stuartv also important to remember is the binning that is done on these emitters. You likely won't see a lot of bin specs from the asian manufacturers who are concerned about keeping costs down so you will see a lot of variation in the actual output and efficiency from lot to lot. This vs. someone like UWLD that actually has their own bin with Cree to almost negate individual variation between emitters and guarantees the best balance of all specifications.

regarding use of HP50's in backup lights, I'm sure it will happen at some point by the end of the year, but not in a sub $100 light.

to @victorzamora 's point as well though, you aren't going to see any burn time increases if they maintain the light output, but you might see 30 minute lights with 2000lm outputs for night diving and what not. I wish there was a reputable 26650 manufacturer, but the only ones I would trust are LiFE's, and those have the same capacity as an 18650 from Panasonic, so I just stick with the little batteries. They're a lot easier to charge on the multi bank chargers as well

 

[stuartv]

I agree it'd be nice to see an XHP50 in a handheld/backup....but pricing will drive that and I don't really have any insight there. One thing to mention, however, is I can't imagine it being much more efficient (5-10%, maybe) than the XM-L2. The burn time on an XHP/18650 simply won't be as high as an XM-L2/26650 combo. Even good 18650s only get to ~3400mAh which is still only 62% of the capacity of a 26650. Using rough math, the XHP50/18650 should burn ~65-75% as long with the same light output as the D26.

If the XM-L2 is running at 120 lumens/W to put out 1000 lumens, and the XHP50 can put out the same with 149 lm/W efficiency, the burn time should be more than a 5 - 10% increase.

Regardless, I would also be quite happy with a D26 replacement that lasted a little longer at 1000 lm, but could go to 2500 lm when I wanted it to....

 

[stuartv]

I wish there was a reputable 26650 manufacturer, but the only ones I would trust are LiFE's

Based on the number of times I have posted about my Soshine 5500mAh 26650s and the number of times you have posted something along these lines, I infer that you do not regard Soshine as a reputable manufacturer.

I just did some googling and read some threads on CPF. There are threads about Soshine going back to 2012 and threads specifically about the Soshine 26650s dating back to 2015. I read one negative post about them and everything else I read was totally positive. As is my own personal experience. I just went and put 2 of my Soshine 26650s on my Opus charger on a Discharge Refresh cycle, to see how their current capacity compares to when they were new. They're over 7 months old now.

Test/Review of Soshine 26650 5500mAh (Black)

Soshine 26650 5500mah

Soshine 18650 3400mah any good?

So, what do you think is wrong with the Soshines?

 

[tbone1004]

I haven't seen any posts about Soshine since I usually drop out of the big threads unless I get tagged or quoted, but for a ~50% increase in burn time, it's just not worth it to stray from the 18650's.

With the 3400mah Panasonics, you can rely on 45 mins of burn time, which is more than enough for any OW situation since don't need it on high the whole time, and 45 mins is quite a long time to begin with. If you aren't gas limited *45 mins is expected absolute max bottom time with an AL80 at 70ft*, then you probably are going to be deco limited with a 45 minute run time and you have it turned down or off for ascent, descent, traversing, and deco.
The 18650's are easier to charge since you can get 4 of them in the multi bay chargers vs 2 of the 26650's, which is nice.
The form factor is nice as well for travelling and stowing, so I just don't see the need to go to a relatively obscure battery size from one maybe two mostly reliable suppliers vs knowing I have great supply of 18650's from both Panasonic and LG and don't have to worry about it.

I'll sacrifice 20 mins of burn time for all of that because I rarely have the need for those lights on high anyway and if I want more burn time and light output, I have a canister that gives more more than enough light with plenty of burn time

I'll take brands like Panasonic and LG over names like Soshine every day of the week.... If they're good enough for Tesla and BMW, they're good enough for me...

 

[stuartv]

I haven't seen any posts about Soshine, but for a 50% increase in burn time, it's just not worth it to stray from the 18650's. I don't do any OW dives where I need more burn time out of them, and it's nothing to swap batteries at the surface interval. 45 minutes of bottom time is a LONG time in OW, and you can always kick it down for descent, traversing, ascent, and off for deco, so even if you're running a 3 hour total run time, you will get it out of the 18650's. They're also easier to charge being able to fit 4 on the big bay chargers which saves power outlets and extra stuff to carry around, and are smaller lights which make travelling and stowing them easier

Ah, well I have posted about them numerous times. Mine actually all tested at 5200-5300 mAh when I got them.

Also, just FYI, Xtar now has the VP4 Plus charger/tester which will charge 4 x 32650 batteries simultaneously. Plus, hookups for charging battery packs and USB devices. And it will charge from 0.5A up to 2A on 2 of the slots and 0.5 or 1.0A on the other 2 slots.

And it has a tester to check battery capacity, plus leads to measure voltage and battery internal resistance.

XTAR VP4 PLUS DRAGON Charger

As for using 18650 lights for non-cave dives, I agree that, for example, a DGX600 is plenty for one dive. But, as you say, I would want to change batteries before a second dive. With the D26 and a 5500mAh battery, I do not feel the need to change batteries between the first and second dives. And that means I only have 1 battery to charge that night, instead of 2. With a 4-bay charger that will do 4 x 32650, that means I can usually charge all my batteries from the day's diving in one go, instead of having to do 2 rounds because of having multiple 18650s to charge. E.g. 3 x 26650 batteries from my light and my 2 video lights, instead of 6 x 18650s.

Plus, the 26650s are about the same price as the 18650s, but I only need half as many of them.

The D26 lights are a little bigger than a DGX600. But, the difference is not enough to matter to me when it comes to traveling or stowing. They're both still a single cell light with a single XM-L2 emitter. The D26 is just a little longer and a little fatter in the handle portion.

 

[victorzamora]

If the XM-L2 is running at 120 lumens/W to put out 1000 lumens, and the XHP50 can put out the same with 149 lm/W efficiency, the burn time should be more than a 5 - 10% increase.

Regardless, I would also be quite happy with a D26 replacement that lasted a little longer at 1000 lm, but could go to 2500 lm when I wanted it to....

But as you saw with the XM-L2s quoting max efficiency of 170lm/W but only achieving 116lm/W at 1000lm, I'm assuming (haven't seen the numbers, not interested in digging around to find them) a fairly optimistic 125-135lm/W at the same output. That's ~12% more burn time. Which, again, wouldn't hurt my feelings, but I'm not sure what that would do to price. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just not sure if even an additional 15% would make a notable difference in use.

Taking one of my current XM-L backup lights, I'm showing an extra ~11min of burn assuming 15% increase. Looking at it in those terms, that's not bad. If it actually achieves the 149lm/W number at ~1000lm, that's an extra 28.5% which translates to over 21min. That's not bad!

 

[victorzamora]

XTAR VP4 PLUS DRAGON Charger

That thing looks SUPER nifty. It's pricy, but I think I see one in my not-too-distant future.

 

[stuartv]

That thing looks SUPER nifty. It's pricy, but I think I see one in my not-too-distant future.

Yeah, if I didn't already have the Opus plus a Gyrfalcon 8-bay charger from Mountain Electronics (charge 8 x 26650 simultaneously, or 4 x 32650), I would get one of the new Xtar charger/testers. But, one tester is all I need. And the 8 x 26650 charger is what I take when I drive to dive. It will definitely charge all my batteries from a day's diving at one time!

Enova GYRFALCON ALL-88 8x Li-Ion + NiMH Charger

Speaking of charging multiple batteries, just for the record, the Opus cannot charge more than 2 x 26650 at once, but it will do 2 x 26650 + 2 x 18650 at the same time.

 

[victorzamora]

The Nitecore that tbone and I have (and like) can do 2x26650+2x18650 but you kinda have to shimmy the cells on there just right. 4x18650 is a snap.

 

[stuartv]

The Nitecore that tbone and I have (and like) can do 2x26650+2x18650 but you kinda have to shimmy the cells on there just right. 4x18650 is a snap.

Right, I think that's pretty normal. It's just that Opus will also test capacity and recondition cells. I really like being able to test my batteries (other than by using them and finding out that they don't last a full dive any more).