Alternatives to "ADVANCED" open water

[The Horn]

Quote" : Wayne and Bob. (I'd give you both a major round of applause, but I don't know the code for it )."

Why?

One thing that surprises me in the replies from the Instructors is that there is an impression given that the graduates of your OW programs don't really have enough behind them to properly dive safely?

I didn't ever say that I had things "all figured out" but I do understand the principles of scuba diving so that I am a very safe and competant diver who seeks to learn and practice the sport or hobby. Nothing alarming about that.

Also 51-100 logged dives can also mean that a person was just negligent with the ol' pen and paper in the early years.......... oops likewise a 1000+ could mean a whole wack of pool sessions and watching mask clearing at 20 feet....but who knows and who cares..........

Safe diving is safe diving and I'll expand my knowledge and skills with a good Instructor. should be able to find one out there and then its off to those goals people keep talking about.........

off to read that thread on Drinking and Diving..................................

 

[waynne fowler]

I wish good luck in your quest. Be safe.

 

[The Horn]

thanks

 

[RonFrank]

I'm confused, how does the superior buoyancy control needed to do deco and/or trimix dives not constitute a skill? How does understanding what won't get you bent and then being able to execute that dive plan not qualify as a skill? You can't learn the in-water stuff from a book anymore than you can learn to swim or ride a bike by reading a book.

Understanding Deco theory, Nitrox, Trimix, etc. are NOT skills, they are knowledge.

Buoyancy control is a skill. Executing a dive plan is a combination of the skills necessary to dive, and the knowledge necessary to make a safe plan in the first place.

You yourself had to throw buoyancy in the mix to then call the use of deco and Trimix a skill, and you are right. Buoyancy is a skill, but it has little to do with Trimix.

I did say, "doing deco diving where one must have exceptional skills to handle the environment, and keep one's head especially if things go wrong."

I am not suggesting that Tech diving requires no skills. However the original post indicated that shore diving, boat entries, and various other specialities were worthless, a joke, and that real skills include Nitrox, Trimix and Deco diving. IMO all of this is valuable, however breathing Nitrox or Trimix is not a skill. Learning to enter the ocean during rough seas is. I pointed out the flaws in his thinking.

 

[daniel f aleman]

Fighting the bureaucracy is a waste of time.

AOW should be taken around the 25 logged open water dive mark, and then Rescue should be next. After that, one can tailor instruction to one's experiences, interests and talents.

 

[Ben_ca]

DIR-F

I'm not going to say anything else less someone jump down my throat again

 

[RonFrank]

Personally, taking AOW when I did, from the instructor I did, helped me as a diver - and it WAS a "true level of advancement" for me.

NO, I most certainly did not see myself as an "advanced" diver when I finished AOW.

Finally, I couldn't possibly agree more with Bob regarding the 3 major components of becoming a competent diver - training, practice and attitude.

I was one of those divers who took AOW within a few dives after OW.

I agree with SadiesMom 100%. Aow definately made me a MUCH more compentent diver, but I'm not sure I'm advanced at close to 50 dives. However I have proven to handle myself in current, during shore (ocean) night dives, and under all the dive conditions I've encountered. I believe that AOW was a BIG step in preparing me to handle things that I have encountered, and having more confidence in my diving has made the diving I've done much more enjoyable.

I am planning on continuing my training. Why? First it keeps me sharp, and it gives me an excuse to dive in conditions that are less than ideal based on where I live. More importantly it will make me a better diver, and a better dive buddy. This is also a reason I participate on Scubaboard. It keeps my mind on diving during times when I can not be diving, and that has definately made me a better diver.

 

[RonFrank]

What an Idiot. No amout of training would prevent that so why bring it up.

As the original poster did not indicate WHAT went wrong, how can you judge this diver an "Idiot"?

I find it amusing that it is usually the Instructors out there on the web that keep pushing the courses and training but say nothing about practice practice practice. Just because you have a card does not mean you're any better, safer, knowledgable etc. Even at the instructor level.

I've not seen any instructor on this forum suggest that practice is not valuable. When asked, most say... dive...dive...dive...

Quote: 'How about navigation? Another worthless class? "

considering my job..........big waste

Since you have not bothered to fill out your profile, how would anyone know what your job is. But since you bring it up... how exactly do you account for currents, or judge distance when navigating UW? Maybe you have learned the answer, and it's easy to look up, however just because you understand navigation does NOT qualify one as a competant navigator underwater.

The whole point of the tread was to find out if there were any courses going on that offered something beyond or was truely an "Advanced" course. Evidently, as is with alot of things these days, it depends on the Instructor offering the course.

Bingo, and we certainly did not need this thread to learn that the instructor is the most important part of any class.

However you comment about fast tracking to the instructor level, and your attitude towards diving education indicates to me that you would likely make a horrible instructor..

BTW, learn how to include quotes in your post... it's difficult to tell what you are quoting and what you are posting.

 

[Cold_Under_Here]

I am new diver, so what I'm saying may be wrong incorrect.

From what I have heard from other divers who had taken the AOW and fromwhat I have researched, its sounds like basically a waste of money. If you really want the experience, supervision and guidance during a dive, I highly recommend you join a local dive club, as you get this experience there.

I really think the DIR-F as additional advanced diver training is the way to go. Just by watching other DIR divers dive, they really look and act like fish in the water. I've dived with some really experienced non-DIR divers and some moderately experienced DIR divers, and the difference is like chalk and cheese. The con with taking the DIR-F course it that you almost need to buy all the DIR equipment..so that's a downer.

I'm still deciding whether I should take the AOW or DIR-F myself. I think I'm going to wait a few years till I can afford some equipment, then take the DIR-F.

That's just my 0.0000002 Psi, if it's worth anything.

Cheers.:14:

 

[RonFrank]

I am new diver, so what I'm saying may be wrong incorrect.

From what I have heard from other divers who had taken the AOW and fromwhat I have researched, its sounds like basically a waste of money. If you really want the experience, supervision and guidance during a dive, I highly recommend you join a local dive club, as you get this experience there.

I think local dive clubs are great, but IMO AOW is NOT a waste of money. First, if you want to continue training with MOST agencies it's necessay, second, that AOW card will get one on charters that OW will not, and most important, with a good instructor, in those five dives you will learn a LOT more than just what is covered in the AOW classes.

I really think the DIR-F as additional advanced diver training is the way to go. Just by watching other DIR divers dive, they really look and act like fish in the water. I've dived with some really experienced non-DIR divers and some moderately experienced DIR divers, and the difference is like chalk and cheese. The con with taking the DIR-F course it that you almost need to buy all the DIR equipment..so that's a downer.

That is a rather big generalization there. I've dove with a couple DIR-F non-graduates, and they were less comfortable in the water than others with similar diving experience.

I've never dove with a GUI instructor (that I'm aware of) but I've dove with a LOT of OW certified divers that were so comfortable UW that I think a few had gills!!

The agency IMO has a LOT less to do with it vs. comfort UW, experience, attitude and the enjoyment of diving. Dive with Marvel, and tell me that one needs DIR-F or even advanced to be a good diver.

I'm still deciding whether I should take the AOW or DIR-F myself. I think I'm going to wait a few years till I can afford some equipment, then take the DIR-F.

That's just my 0.0000002 Psi, if it's worth anything.

Cheers.:14:

If you don't have equipment, and are thinking DIR, then make your equipment purchases in that direction. The main criticism of DIR is that anyone who feels there is ONE way of Doing Things, and that their way is Right, i.e., everything else is wrong, is rather closed minded.