Alternatives to "ADVANCED" open water

[RonFrank]

I have been exploring the possibility of taking more certification, however, the "Advanced" open water just doesn't seem to cut the musterd on many levels. Are there any other courses offered after the open water that are truly "Advanced" or are you stuck with the advanced, rescue, divemaster.........that most cert organizations offer?

IF you want to persue further training down a professional path with most certification agencies.

You may also find that it's going to stop you from charter boat diving some sites.

Speigel Grove is a prime example. No advanced cert, no dive unless you pay an additional $50 for an instructor to take you down.

This is likely only in the US, but who knows.

You have never bothered to say what your goal is. Learning is not a goal, is the process one takes to acheive a goal, hence certification cards, diploma's, etc....

If you only desire is to learn, keep diving, keep reading, and have fun. If you goal is to get tech certified, some agencies require AOW in route to technical certifications, others do not.

 

[SadiesMom]

FireDiver, I'm sorry to say I went to the funeral three weeks ago of diver who had your exact same attitude. He didn't think he had anything else to learn after OW - he knew it all and wasn't afraid of anything. He got himself killed 1 day less than 6 weeks after he was certified - diving solo in less than 20 feet of water - 2000+ psi left in his tank, and no, it was not due to a sudden medical issue like a heart attack. Left behind a wife and 4 young kids.

I'm not saying you're going to kill yourself, but that attitude that "you can learn it all just by 'playing around' on your own" is what got this guy killed.

 

[Bruciebabe]

It is worth noting that most insurance is invalid if you exceed the depth you are certified to.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As for the certs offered by ALL the agencies, most are just garbage and a way to get more of your money.
AOW = trash
boat diver, ***?
computer diver, read the manual, theyre all different, but pretty damn easy
shore diver? is this for real?
underwater hunter, what can they 'teach' me that I cant just learn from a book?
ecosystem awareness, wow, how to be aware of the marine enviroment
I think they are just catering to the crowd who say 'look at all my cert cards, I'm better than you'.

I will spend my money on REAL courses; nitrox, deco, trimix, cave, etc. Not intros, but full courses that actually teach something.

Hmmmm ... pretty broad brush you've got there ... it's a pity you don't live closer to the Seattle area. Tell ya what, if you ever get the chance to make it out this way, sign up for my AOW class. If you don't come out of it honestly admitting you learned enough to justify the cost, I'll give you your money back.

I've had people take that class who've had hundreds of dives ... had a DIR-F grad with about 200 dives in my last class, in fact ... and I haven't yet heard any of 'em complaining that they didn't learn anything ...

I ain't saying there aren't some pretty poor classes out there ... but for the most part, your attitude has as much impact on what you'll get out of a class as the instructor's ability to teach it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[StSomewhere]

Ironically Nitrox, deco, and trimix are things you CAN learn from a book. They take no skill, but they can be dangerous, and exacting procedures must be followed. The reason they are considered tech is because you can get killed if you screw up, and most people using Trimix are doing deco diving where one must have exceptional skills to handle the environment, and keep one's head especially if things go wrong.

I'm confused, how does the superior buoyancy control needed to do deco and/or trimix dives not constitute a skill? How does understanding what won't get you bent and then being able to execute that dive plan not qualify as a skill? You can't learn the in-water stuff from a book anymore than you can learn to swim or ride a bike by reading a book.

 

[TSandM]

I think he's just talking about deco THEORY. He goes on to say that "exceptional skills" are needed for deco DIVING.

 

[SadiesMom]

I also find it interesting to see someone who lives in Oklahoma pooh-poohing the idea of learning how to shore dive in detail. I'm guessing you never had to shore dive on a regular basis with surf entries and exits, strong surge, rip currents, vis so low (<5 feet) that that the ONLY way you're only getting back to shore is with your compass, entanglement hazards like kelp and lobster trap lines, rocky entries and exits, tides that can blow you to another continent if you don't watch them and all the normal things we in New England and those on the West Coast deal with on a regular basis.

In over 160 dives, I've done *maybe* 30 off boats - the rest have been dealing with stuff like I listed above. I was lucky that I had a OW and AOW instructor (the same instructor) who was serious about what the issues are about diving up here and worked with me on those things during my AOW (no, we didn't do a "shore dive" specialty, but he included disussions on watching tides and currents, how to get out of entanglements and choosing appropriate dive sites as well as working us hard on our navigation skills).

 

[drew52]

It always amazing me to see how people with about 50 dives think they have nothing to learn from the AOW. Personally I've done over 250 dives and still learn stuff on nearly every dive. I often find myself learning stuff on the AOW courses I'm teaching.

Perhaps choosing the right instructor and the right specialties will help but you can't tell me you have nothing to learn. Why push towards stuff like technical diving or "advanced diving" which your experience level does not justify. Things should be taken slowly and with the right instructor and right attitude there is a lot to be learnt.

Don't choose the basic go for the dive type of choices, choose dives that are going to test your abilities and challenge you to learn.

 

[jessecurry]

underwater hunter, what can they 'teach' me that I cant just learn from a book?
ecosystem awareness, wow, how to be aware of the marine enviroment

Sadly, most people could probably learn from these two courses. There are many hunting techniques that can't be learned from a book, and a lot of observation that you don't get by just reading about things.
And the ecosystem awareness is, IMO, a course that should be required. Individuals, especially in the US, see the environment, but they aren't aware of it in the slightest. People are too caught up in themselves and the false perceptions that they have of themselves to pay attention to what's happening around them. I think a lot of this may stem from materialism and self-entitlement, but that could fill an entire thesis.

In short, despite the amateur level of some of these courses, you could probably get a lot out of all of them. Sometimes you'll get the most just by watching someone more skilled than yourself and paying attention. Sometimes you'll get the most by watching someone less skilled than yourself and paying attention.
When you see others "bad habits" you tend to them notice that you do the same things and you can correct then.
Maybe someone who has 100s of dives in all sorts of dangerous conditions won't get as much out of AOW as someone who has 1 or 2 dives in good conditions, but if you get nothing out of the course then you are far too wrapped up in yourself.

 

[The Horn]

Quote:" He got himself killed 1 day less than 6 weeks after he was certified - diving solo in less than 20 feet of water - 2000+ psi left in his tank, and no, it was not due to a sudden medical issue like a heart attack. Left behind a wife and 4 young kids."

What an Idiot. No amout of training would prevent that so why bring it up.

I've resolved myself to the fact that I'll take the AOW so I'm not discriminated against on the charters that may require the card. The only reason to take the course or my "GOAL" as people keep talking about is to have the freedom to dive with charters or to go ice diving with a local club etc. because they need to see the card.

I'm not confusing the purpose of the certifications, I know, experience is difficult to prove without a card, diploma etc. I think the "Agencies" are confusing what the training behind the certification should be.

I find it amusing that it is usually the Instructors out there on the web that keep pushing the courses and training but say nothing about practice practice practice. Just because you have a card does not mean you're any better, safer, knowledgable etc. Even at the instructor level.

Quote: 'How about navigation? Another worthless class? "

considering my job..........big waste


The whole point of the tread was to find out if there were any courses going on that offered something beyond or was truely an "Advanced" course. Evidently, as is with alot of things these days, it depends on the Instructor offering the course.

I will seek out my Yoda.