Alternatives to "ADVANCED" open water

[fire_diver]

OK, perhaps I worded my statement incorrectly since all you experts have decided to flog me....:11:

1- never said I knew everything, or that I dont have a lot to learn still

2- ok, yes, shore diving is a joke in OK. And I'm sure in some places the surf can be dangerous if you dont know what you are doing.

3- I never said that some of the basic courses taught WERENT of great benefit such as Peak performance bouyancy, navigation, drift and others.

And yes, I heard from many that nitrox was a useless course, but you have to have that to get nitrox fills, just like you have to have OW to get air fills.

my point was AOW in general. Ask a non diver if a couple hours in class room and 5 "adventure" dives would make a person an advanced diver. They would laugh in your face.

Too many people put too much stock in an AOW card. If a skill is worth learning its worth learning in more than an 'adventure dive' setting. AOW training should reflect a true level of advancement, not just 'heres a few more things to consider' then five more dives with another c-card at the end.

 

[StSomewhere]

I think he's just talking about deco THEORY. He goes on to say that "exceptional skills" are needed for deco DIVING.

But all the theory in the world doesn't count for squat if you can't execute the dive plan. Its not separate pieces, its the whole. If someone really wants an alternative to AOW, they could do a lot worse than get the types of skills that tech diving requires vs. just reading books and articles on deco, etc. and thinking that qualifies them to do anything underwater. YMMV.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I find it amusing that it is usually the Instructors out there on the web that keep pushing the courses and training but say nothing about practice practice practice. Just because you have a card does not mean you're any better, safer, knowledgable etc. Even at the instructor level.

I find it amusing that someone with less than 100 dives has it all so well figured out ... and perhaps just a bit alarming.

Give it a few hundred more dives, then come back and revisit this thread ... I suspect your perspective will have changed a bit.

FWIW - there are three major components required to becoming a competent diver ... training, practice, and attitude. If any one of them is deficient, the other two won't really do you much good ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[HowardE]

FWIW - there are three major components required to becoming a competent diver ... training, practice, and attitude. If any one of them is deficient, the other two won't really do you much good ...

Bob - something people should carry around with them every day. All too many people have closed minded attitudes (did I just spend 2 weeks with my father in law?) and could apply your statement to life in general (not just about diving)

P.S. - I like the Jerry Claus.

 

[AndyNZ]

I reckon that it's a big shame that PADI axed the old Advanced Plus course.... which in addition to the 5 adventure dives covered first aid, dive theory (to DM level of understanding) and an extra number of adventure dives. Advanced Plus and Rescue would give a great platform to learn about what specialites would interest you and also give you the dive theory to move into more technical aspects of diving.

 

[SadiesMom]

my point was AOW in general. Ask a non diver if a couple hours in class room and 5 "adventure" dives would make a person an advanced diver. They would laugh in your face.

Too many people put too much stock in an AOW card. If a skill is worth learning its worth learning in more than an 'adventure dive' setting. AOW training should reflect a true level of advancement, not just 'heres a few more things to consider' then five more dives with another c-card at the end.

FWIW, Fire_Diver, I agree with you that no AOW card makes an "advanced" diver. And my instructor was clear to point that out. Personally, I think the title of the course is a misnomer. I'd like to see it called something else. But I don't want to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater, either.

You didn't take AOW, so IMO, you can't judge accurately whether taking it *can* make one a better, more confident diver. Personally, taking AOW when I did, from the instructor I did, helped me as a diver - and it WAS a "true level of advancement" for me.

NO, I most certainly did not see myself as an "advanced" diver when I finished AOW. And honestly...even as a DM, I'm not even sure I would classify myself as an "advanced" diver now. I certainly think I'm headed there, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable saying I've made it yet. (There's nothing like being a relatively new DM to show you exactly how much MORE you have to learn - I've found it quite humbling. Every time I get in the water with students and the instructors I work with, I see more things I want to learn to do better or differently.)

Finally, I couldn't possibly agree more with Bob regarding the 3 major components of becoming a competent diver - training, practice and attitude.

 

[The Horn]

Quote: "I find it amusing that someone with less than 100 dives has it all so well figured out ... and perhaps just a bit alarming.

Give it a few hundred more dives, then come back and revisit this thread ... I suspect your perspective will have changed a bit."

I think after a few hundred more dives AOW would be even a bigger waste of time and money.

By the way, I never said I had it "all" figured out. There must be one or two points I'm sure you could bring me up to speed on. "sigh"

Anyway, thanks for some of the input I recieved back. Perhaps I'll blow the cash and fast track it to instructor in the next few months............ geez ...now that would be alarming...

 

[AndyNZ]

FWIW, Fire_Diver, I agree with you that no AOW card makes an "advanced" diver. And my instructor was clear to point that out. Personally, I think the title of the course is a misnomer. I'd like to see it called something else.

PADI (or at least PADI Asia Pacific) are pushing this now as the "Adventures in Diving Programme" which is a bit more of a realistic title....

 

[waynne fowler]

I find it amusing that someone with less than 100 dives has it all so well figured out ... and perhaps just a bit alarming.

Give it a few hundred more dives, then come back and revisit this thread ... I suspect your perspective will have changed a bit.

FWIW - there are three major components required to becoming a competent diver ... training, practice, and attitude. If any one of them is deficient, the other two won't really do you much good ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It is pretty funny to listen to some of this.. one thing you find out as you learn more, gain more experience is that the more you learn, the bigger the picture gets and the farther you have to go to reach that summit you believed to be so close initally. It is interesting to hear people with 50 - 100 dives who think they have things well figured out. Then you have the folks that have been diving for 10+ years doing 5 - 10 dives a year and see themselves as seasoned. If these guy's are still diving in 5 years and do 50 or so dives a year and you were to put some of these posts in front of them at that time they would most certainly blush

While I would have to agree.. The normal concept of the AOW course is truely lacking (one of the reasons we no longer offer it) for MOST divers. There are some folks that this class is what they need/want.. however I think they should call it something else as it does tend to leave the wrong impression. You do not leave the class (if taught to minimum standards) with the proper buoyancy, team, comunication and gas management skills to do deep dives properly. The naviganal portion is whoefully lacking the real meat and potatos information to truely master navigation. The night portion leaves one with somewhat of a misconception about night diving in that navigating is not focused upon enough, comunication, team management and the like are not covered properly through-out the entire course... (again this assumes that one is taught to the minimum standards

Any course that would have you believe that after having a total of just 9 dives you are prepared for Deep diving, Navigational challanges, and Night & Limited visability diving + 2 other specialties of your choosing. But the current AOW progam (PADI) does just that. As my instructor told me when I took that route.. "now that your certified, you need to go get qualified" Luckly we worked out a mentorship program that did just that for me.

As mentioned here on this thread.. you need to define what your goals are. If you are just wanting to do some simple easy deeper dives in the 100' range your needs will be different then the guy who wants to go do the 250' dives 3 miles back in a cave. Granted you need some/many of the the same fundamental skill sets, but you don't need to have the same level of commitment as the later person. More commitment will most certainly translate into more comfort and safety however the former environment is conciderably more forgiving then the later.

You would probably be best served finding and instructor who you are compatable with and trying to sign on with them in some type of mentorship program. This type of program will work for all levels of divers and allows one to tailer training to your spacific goals.

*NOTE TO "THE HORN" unless you deal spacifically with navigating underwater in your job and/or you are among the top 10% of navigators, you certianly can learn something from a properly conducted navigation course. There are many things that are different from land based (i.e currents and zero visablility come imediatly to mind)*

Hope you the best in your training endevours

 

[SadiesMom]

, Wayne and Bob. (I'd give you both a major round of applause, but I don't know the code for it ).