Almost ready to buy 2 Faber galvanized LP 85's - sound right?

[J322Y]

Well, there is a lot of nonsense on the web about AL80s.....because when they are empty they are actually buoyant. So people say they don't want the buoyancy shift from negative to positive, which is silly. ALL TANKS get lighter when you use up the air in them, like maybe 5-6 pounds lighter for the tanks we are talking about. So they ALL get lighter at the end of a dive. At the beginning of a dive, if you put some lead on your belt/in your pockets so you are nice and neutral, then at the end of a dive you will be 5-6 pounds buoyant. Bad juju. So, you always weight yourself to be 5-6 pounds heavy at the beginning of the dive, so you become neutral at the end. OK? Now, if the tank you are using is steel, then it is heavier in water than is the aluminum tank, so you need to put less lead on your belt/in your pockets so you are weighted properly at the beginning of the dive. Nice. that is why people like steel tanks....you can carry less lead on your belt or in your weight pockets. But what we are talking about is just a few pounds, not 15 or 20, so it is not really that big a deal. An AL80 weighs about 1.4 pounds in water when full; the LP85 weighs about 6.7 pounds, the high pressure 100 about 8.4 pounds. So, if you have a LP85 instead of an AL80, you can take 5 maybe 6 pounds off your belt. Big deal. The AL80 costs $149, the LP85 costs $279. That is a big price difference (time two for two tanks) for just 5-6 pounds difference in lead you are carrying.

In fresh water with a 5mm suit I'm using 6 pounds with steel tanks.

 

[Marie13]

I don't own a HP tank, so I have no firsthand experience with trying to get HP fills, but wouldn't dive shops in the major dive areas in FL have no problem with that? It's been my impression that the HP100 is an extremely popular tank, and that problems getting a full fill are a thing of the past in major dive areas in FL. In other words, the HP100 is sort of the modern gold standard for a tank of this size. Wrong?

The lower price on the LP85 is certainly a consideration.

I don't think you would have a problem finding a buyer for either if you should lose interest in diving.

I'm in the Chicago area and I have no issues getting fills to 3442 on my HP80s, even at the quarries.

HP100s always seem to be quickly snapped up when I've seen them for sale online, both here on SB and any of the FB scuba sale groups I'm a member of.

 

[Johnoly]

I read something...

You are still new to diving and like you've seen,,,you'll be changing out gear configurations until you settle in on dive habits {springs, photo, instructor, cave, spearo, DM, etc). Most all of us started by buying our 1st AL80 only to change over to steels. And then we sold those initial steels to buy different size steels that better suited the final love of diving activity we stuck with.

So what ever tank you are going to buy now,,,,there's a good chance you'll sell it in 2-5yrs cause you want a tank that better fits your needs. Just looking at resale prices and return on investment to get the most of your money back, the LP85 would rank pretty low on percentage ROI. Some would say your couldn't give a used one away. It's just not enough cubic feet of air for intermediate divers looking to significantly extend their bottom gas volume. Like others said the HP100 is very popular(if a good fill psi) and well sought after. Also the LP95 is extremely popular in your cave country area and has excellent resale values. IMHO, I'd buy an LP95 rather than an LP85.

One thing we can all agree on with a newer diver that sticks with the sport is your are going to buy and change out gear. Buy good quality and popular gear that is easy to resale cause we all change out gear.

P.S. If you want to start a really long thread,,,If you buy HP tanks should you also then spend the money to switch your regulator over to DIN instead of yoke? Just more $$$.

 

[J322Y]

You are still new to diving and like you've seen,,,you'll be changing out gear configurations until you settle in on dive habits {springs, photo, instructor, cave, spearo, DM, etc). Most all of us started by buying our 1st AL80 only to change over to steels. And then we sold those initial steels to buy different size steels that better suited the final love of diving activity we stuck with.

So what ever tank you are going to buy now,,,,there's a good chance you'll sell it in 2-5yrs cause you want a tank that better fits your needs. Just looking at resale prices and return on investment to get the most of your money back, the LP85 would rank pretty low on percentage ROI. Some would say your couldn't give a used one away. It's just not enough cubic feet of air for intermediate divers looking to significantly extend their bottom gas volume. Like others said the HP100 is very popular(if a good fill psi) and well sought after. Also the LP95 is extremely popular in your cave country area and has excellent resale values. IMHO, I'd buy an LP95 rather than an LP85.

One thing we can all agree on with a newer diver that sticks with the sport is your are going to buy and change out gear. Buy good quality and popular gear that is easy to resale cause we all change out gear.

P.S. If you want to start a really long thread,,,If you buy HP tanks should you also then spend the money to switch your regulator over to DIN instead of yoke? Just more $$$.

Food for thought.

I've been diving with lp 95's mostly since my LDS doesn't usually have many 85's available. They feel very good to me and I like the extra volume...

 

[Marie13]

@Johnoly

That's a good one! I've been certified a little over a year. First tank was a 30cft pony I've still got and probably will for a good while. Then I bought 2 AL80s and dove them for a few months. I then bought 2 HP80s and gave my AL80s to my dive buddy on long term loan. He's decided to buy them from me, as he's been converted to tank ownership by the simple convenience (no hassle of returning rented tanks, etc.). I happened to have a spare reg set, exact same as my original, but DIN (original was yoke). Moved everything to the DIN first stage. Loved those HP 80s so much I got 2 more (used). Original yoke first stage is being converted to DIN for pony use, while pony reg is being paired with another one of the same model for side mount for next year.

And heaven knows what tanks I'll end up with for SM when I start my tech stuff in a couple of years. Probably HP100s.

 

[runsongas]

Lp72 if you can find them in good shape are a nice cheap tank that is a better choice than al80. May be worth looking for a pair on Craigslist if you want to spend less than the 600 for two lp85s

 

[divad]

Even if you only get 3000 psi in the 3442 tank, you're no worse off than with the LP85.

I am spoiled by my semi-local shop which routinely fills them to 3200 - 3400 (cold).

 

[J322Y]

Well, there is a lot of nonsense on the web about AL80s.....because when they are empty they are actually buoyant. So people say they don't want the buoyancy shift from negative to positive, which is silly. ALL TANKS get lighter when you use up the air in them, like maybe 5-6 pounds lighter for the tanks we are talking about. So they ALL get lighter at the end of a dive. At the beginning of a dive, if you put some lead on your belt/in your pockets so you are nice and neutral, then at the end of a dive you will be 5-6 pounds buoyant. Bad juju. So, you always weight yourself to be 5-6 pounds heavy at the beginning of the dive, so you become neutral at the end. OK? Now, if the tank you are using is steel, then it is heavier in water than is the aluminum tank, so you need to put less lead on your belt/in your pockets so you are weighted properly at the beginning of the dive. Nice. that is why people like steel tanks....you can carry less lead on your belt or in your weight pockets. But what we are talking about is just a few pounds, not 15 or 20, so it is not really that big a deal. An AL80 weighs about 1.4 pounds in water when full; the LP85 weighs about 6.7 pounds, the high pressure 100 about 8.4 pounds. So, if you have a LP85 instead of an AL80, you can take 5 maybe 6 pounds off your belt. Big deal. The AL80 costs $149, the LP85 costs $279. That is a big price difference (time two for two tanks) for just 5-6 pounds difference in lead you are carrying.

Your logic seems good, but I still have some doubts. I lack significant experience diving, but I base my doubt on a recent experiment I did with weighting. Here goes...

I did two fresh water dives at Devil's Den with LP95's and my 5mm suit/hood/gloves. I over weighted myself on the first one with 22 pounds. I actually wondered if it might make me more stable. Um, no. Of course I could get neutral, but still was all over the place. It was embarrassing. On the second dive I went down to 10 pounds. I looked like a different diver. I easily navigated narrow passages between rocks and into fairly tight holes.

I realize that I wasn't using AL's and comparing to steel tanks, but I think it was a reasonable test of the theory that adding more weight relative to added buoyancy gives a constant result. It didn't seem that way to me.

Did that make sense? I'm not at my clearest tonight...

 

[lowviz]

...//... I realize that I wasn't using AL's and comparing to steel tanks, but I think it was a reasonable test of the theory that adding more weight relative to added buoyancy gives a constant result. It didn't seem that way to me. ...

Me neither.

tursiops is on it. You buy the tank that you need to balance your rig. It isn't any harder than that. So to your OP, and given that I have no idea of the net buoyancy of your overall rig, I can't comment on your selection as to a tank/cylinder.

If you haven't read this, I would recommend giving it careful attention: Balanced Rig | 8/of9 | Scuba Buoyancy Masterclass

 

[gcarter]

2 divers in the house.

First purchase 4 x AL80s, used.
Then 2 x PST HP100
Next up, 2 x Faber HP117
Sold 2 x AL80
Bought 1 x AL40
Will buy 1 x Faber HP133 this month.

Son uses the HP100s, he doesn't breathe and rarely goes below 1/2 tank, but the steels trim SO much better than the ALs.

I use the HP117s, love them. HP133 will serve some of the longer dives we regularly do.

AL80s are only kept as backups for busy multi-dive weekends at this point.