All I can say is I hate drysuits!

[Soggy]

So is it majority agreement that utilizing ankle weights IS an acceptable method, or just as a training instrument that should be lessened over time (as I believe one post put it)?

I think they are completely unacceptable and a kludge that will prevent you from learning how to dive correctly. Get some jet fins/turtle fins if you don't already have them and make sure the boots on the suit aren't too big.

 

[pt40fathoms]

I'll tell ya all. I kept working over and over in varrying positions; trying to find that optimum form and position. Is that what it comes down to? Just having to find that exact approach to positioning and movement so as to avoid the movement of any air pockets? Seriously here. What is the basic concept that dry suit divers are looking to achieve overall.
(After writing that last sentence and remembering where I am about to post this, I started laughing. Never ask a bunch of scuba nuts for anything basic! LOL!)
No seriously again. Is it all in physical positioning with the least amount of air as possible in the suit?
Does The Squeeze have to be to the point of pain? Does this become a danger factor in and of itself at depth?

(I know there will be repeats of "Go take a professional dry suit advanced course...etc, but that's easier suggested than done in my area. Besides, that's why we're all here!)

Thanks,
John

OK, first off, anyone who is new to dry suit diving or contemplating dry suit diving should know that in the water you will not be as fast and agile as you are in a wet suit or in just your swim suit. You will have drag to deal with, much more than you might expect. So if you find yourself not making progress as fast as you used to and kick harder to make up the lost speed, you will suck air like a Hoover. This is why most new dry suit divers find their air consumption spike when they get that new comfy dry suit. Its very important when diving with a buddy who is in a wet suit to tell them you are slower in a dry suit and they will need to slow down.

Buoyancy control and managing the air in your dry suit is a learned skill. Your instructor can tell you what you need to do, how to do it, and why you do it, but you need to practice to get it dialed in. If you find you have a large “bubble” on your back, then you have too much air in the suit and are either over weighted or have extra gear on that needs to be accounted for. Using your dry suit for buoyancy control, only works with a basic gear configuration and perfect weighting. If you are diving doubles, slinging stage bottles, or just taking along extra stuff. You will only remove squeeze from the suit and use your BCD (what ever the style) for buoyancy compensation. However, using your dry suit exclusively for buoyancy control even with minimal gear and perfect weighting is a learned skill. So I recommend to only removing squeeze and use the BCD for its intended purpose. Do this by opening your dry suit dump valve fully and when ever you release air from your BCD with your left hand, just raise your elbow at the same time and be in a general feet down angle to bring the air to the highest point. Over time you will “get the feel” for what is happening and be able to use the BCD less and stay in a more horizontal position, but this will take time so be patient!

Squeeze should not be painful! Add air to remove discomfort but not enough to make you a balloon. This too takes time to figure out and can only be explained; you need to dive to get the feel of what it is that we are talking about. As for squeeze being harmful, yes it can be! The restriction in blood flow could cause a localized DCS hit under the skin or in the general region of the severe squeeze. So snug is OK but prolonged tightness to the point of pain is BAD so avoid it

Talk to your instructor who is teaching the Dry Suit course about his experiences and what you have read here on SB, and dive with some buddies who have gained experience with dry suits. Above all, try and have fun and don’t get discouraged.

 

[pt40fathoms]

So is it majority agreement that utilizing ankle weights IS an acceptable method, or just as a training instrument that should be lessened over time (as I believe one post put it)?

Nope, gotta disagree with that one.

I know lots of divers who use them, and they are very good divers. But I also know many that don't and I'm one of them.

If you learn with ankle weights, you will either end up using them from then on, or struggle later if you decide to stop using them.

I don't use Jet fins, I use a pair of Mares Quatros and have learned how to dive without the need for ankle weights or weighted fins such as Jet fins.

Don't start with them, even to "just get you by", because you will get used to them and will never be able to dump them in the future. They are not "bad" just not really needed, what is needed is practice and patience (and the odd bit of cursing when no one is within ear shot).

 

[ScubaMarc]

U can also try ankle weights. Do not let other people say they are training wheels. Just like the others say “shift your weight” to your ankles. I used my suit for 10 dives trying to keep my feet down with out the weight. Some one lent me their ankle weights and I never look back at the smooth horizontal sailing I went.

Also, there were never any air bubbles by my legs. So gators would not have worked. (I guess I have lead in my head.)

 

[Soggy]

Instead of throwing gear at the problem, try extending your legs a bit. Bring your arms in or move your tank(s) down a little bit on your back. Make sure that your fins are flat and not sticking up...this will help provide stability in the horizontal position. There are about a dozen different good solutions to the floaty feet problem and none of them involve adding gear.

I don't know *anyone* who, after a little practice *needed* ankle weights. They are a kludge to a problem that can be fixed with skill. I wear double 130s (very top heavy) with a 6 lb backplate and have oversized boots that trap air and are made of 7mm of vulcanized neoprene. If I can stay horizontal in drysuit, anyone can.

The other part of the problem is that a lot of people *think* they are feet up and really aren't....It took me a while to realize that even though I thought my feet are way up, I was actually just barely in good trim. Knees, nipples and chin should all be on the same plane.

U can also try ankle weights. Do not let other people say they are training wheels. Just like the others say “shift your weight” to your ankles. I used my suit for 10 dives trying to keep my feet down with out the weight. Some one lent me their ankle weights and I never look back at the smooth horizontal sailing I went.

 

[ScubaMarc]

Instead of throwing gear at the problem, try extending your legs a bit. Bring your arms in or move your tank(s) down a little bit on your back. Make sure that your fins are flat and not sticking up...this will help provide stability in the horizontal position. There are about a dozen different good solutions to the floaty feet problem and none of them involve adding gear.

I don't know *anyone* who, after a little practice *needed* ankle weights. They are a kludge to a problem that can be fixed with skill. I wear double 130s (very top heavy) with a 6 lb backplate and have oversized boots that trap air and are made of 7mm of vulcanized neoprene. If I can stay horizontal in drysuit, anyone can.

The other part of the problem is that a lot of people *think* they are feet up and really aren't....It took me a while to realize that even though I thought my feet are way up, I was actually just barely in good trim. Knees, nipples and chin should all be on the same plane.

On my first drysuit I did not use ankle weights, I need them on my second suit. So I had the practice. I tried to move my tank down a few inches, moved my pony down to the bottom of my main tank, tried a weight belt instead of my bc weights. Nothing worked.

I did change my fins straps to spring straps and it help a little. Are srpring straps the same as ankle weights?

Ankle weight do have their place.

 

[ScubaSarus]

I use ankle weights 1 lb and they make a lot of difference and I use than as much as I can. The only drawback is if I forget them then I am not used to diving without them then the dive get interesting. They are not a mocho thing were a better divers can dive without them its a preference on how people like to dive and is related to were thier center of gravity is also. If you have a lot of fat on you you will be more bouyant towards your head as opposed to your feet and my have a tendencey for your feet to be down. Rember physics with weights center of gravity and moments ?

 

[Soggy]

If you have a lot of fat on you you will be more bouyant towards your head as opposed to your feet and my have a tendencey for your feet to be down. Rember physics with weights center of gravity and moments ?

Yeah, I remember it, except I use my body to adjust rather than adding gear.

If you need more weight towards your legs, extend your legs further and bring your arms in closer. Eventually you find a sweet spot that works. It *is* all about skill...those that have the skill to dive without them don't need them. Those who don't have the skill, think they do need them.

 

[doole]

If you have a lot of fat on you you will be more bouyant towards your head as opposed to your feet and my have a tendencey for your feet to be down. Rember physics with weights center of gravity and moments ?

Well yeah, unless the fat's on yer butt...

A lot depends on the way the suit functions, too. If the legs are a looser fit than the torso, your head might go down. It can help to stop and think for a while about what's really going on in your own particular case.

Initially, back when I bought my first drysuit around when the brontosaur munched the eucalyptus, I had been taught to use ankle weights as mandatory. I found that the dern things made it too hard to swim efficiently, so out they went, right off the hop.

 

[MyDiveLog]

With only 10 dives on my dry suit I hesitated to chime in but, thinking about it a bit, who better to give advice than an experienced (300+ dives) diver going up the same learning curve?

I didn't take the specialty course ... one isn't offered at the shop I teach out of ... the advice of some buddies who dive dry was helpful, though:

Weighting: I find that I need 8 - 10 pounds more weight than with my 7mil, using the thickest undergarmets Bare sells (polar extreme or something like that). I tried using no ankle weights, using 1# ankle weights, and using 2# ankle weights. I feel more 'normal' with the 1# weights (don't use any when diving wet), but the difference between not having them was marginal.

Purging the suit: One tip helped me a lot...before you dive, open the air valve all the way and squat down into a ball. This will compress air out of the suit, making you much less bouyant at the top of the water column. Spin the valve closed until it doesn't let air in when you stand up. Once I descend a few feet I open the valve all the way. If you're not doing this prior to your bouyancy check you may be over weighted, which would throw off your trim in the water.

Flexibility in the water: I still feel like a 'tank' moving through the water compared to diving wet, and have accepted that this is one of the trade-offs of diving dry. Ditto for the hassle getting the neoprene neck and wrist seals folded right and and needing a buddy's help zipping the suit. It's well worth it, however, especially when boat diving...I'll admit to a slight smile seeing the wet suit divers shivering while I'm warm and comfortable!

During the dive: intentionally stop and change your position in the water column, going from horizontal to vertical (head up) to feel the shift in the air bubble. I also practice going heads-down ... the air bubble shifts to my legs. I swim down, then practice inverting to vent the air bubble. At the end of the dive, if you are shallow, feel a bit bouyant and simply raising your left arm doesn't fix things, try pulling your legs and rolling into a ball to squeeze more air out.

A QUESTION FOR THE EXPERIENCED DRY DUIT DIVERS: I dive with Bare's tech boots. They are comfortable topside and do a great job of keeping the air out of my feet. They are a royal pain, however, getting into the Scubpro jetfins. The fins I use with my dry suit are a full size larger than I use with my wet suit. The hassle is fine with boat diving, but I wouldn't feel comfortable beach diving with them. I tried storing the fins with the boots in them, with 10 llbs of weight in each boot. It didn't have any effect. Do any of you have suggestions?