MaresMan1:
Well, I don't know about Pug, but I'm gonna hand in my doubles, deco tanks and trimix card, and run right out and take a class on how to work your hip mounted gadget thingy. I'm sure all my friends will be in awe of my new ability
Airtrim or Flight Control System
- Thread starter Calvinator
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Well, I don't know about Pug, but I'm gonna hand in my doubles, deco tanks and trimix card, and run right out and take a class on how to work your hip mounted gadget thingy. I'm sure all my friends will be in awe of my new ability
yknot
Guest
MaresMan1:Uncle Pug and Mech, while I repect your opinions, that is my point exactly. You have to reach for this little string and that little hose depending on where the air is in the BC. I don't. Always on the left hip and always works in any position.
When I have a camera in my hands makes life a lot easier when trying to get that nice shot. Just a different and more efficient way of doing the same job for me(IMHO). Nothing fancy or tricky about it(JMO).
If I have said it once, I have said one thousand times. Get your training and practice skills.
It works very well for me when traveling or for basic recreational diving
Dive Smart; Dive Safe
Enjoy the ride
:cool1:
Mares-As I've never seen the Mares edition of this technology (have seen SeaQuest Fusion only) you state that you can dump air in any positon. While most any conventional BC can accomplish the same thing how exactly does this work with your BC? There has to be some sort of linkage or cables that activate the dump vents. I would also assume that there should be at least (4) dump vents- top right and left plus lower right and left. If you can dump by depressing a single button then all valves open each and every time? As a statistical fact, the more pieces and complexity to a mechanism, the more prone it will be to breakdown compared to a simpler more robust design.
Bye SONICWRX... thanks for stopping in.
MaresMan1... if you need an airtrim then by all means use an airtrim.
Thankfully I don't. Gross adjustments on ascent are just a little pull of the string... fine adjustments are a matter of breathing control.
Hovering motionless mid-water column while looking through my magnifier at little critters isn't something to be accomplished with airtrim.
MaresMan1... if you need an airtrim then by all means use an airtrim.
Thankfully I don't. Gross adjustments on ascent are just a little pull of the string... fine adjustments are a matter of breathing control.
Hovering motionless mid-water column while looking through my magnifier at little critters isn't something to be accomplished with airtrim.
MaresMan1
Contributor
Uncle Pug:
I totally agree with you
For me airtrim makes it easier as gross adjustments on decent/ascent are just a little press of a button... fine adjustments are a matter of breathing control. I don't need it, I just like it. I always said dive what you like, be safe and have fun.Dive Smart; Dive Safe
Enjoy the ride
:cool1:
OP
Calvinator
Guest
SONICWRX:
I do agree partially that we cannot stop technology advancement. But it looks like this whole board do consist of male, female, old, young, new, experienced, conservative, not-so-conservative, blah... blah... blah... divers.
Hence, there are many factors influencing a diver's acceptance levels to technology advancement, comfort level to accepting new technology, opinions towards new technology, and the list goes on.
I do believe that everything has its pros and cons. There is no BCD in this world which is ALL THE WAY BAD or PERFECTLY GOOD. I'm an engineer by profession and this is what I believe.
However I posted this thread to seek opinions that I hope will help me decide finally. I thank all for a very sporting time expressing your opinions, be it "for or against" this advanced technolgy BCDs.
Regards,
Calvin from Malaysia.
FWIW Calvin (and others) I just ordered my girlfriend the Dacor Extremelle which has the Air trim system. I looked around at several BCs and in the end I feel that this was a good choice. The price was right ($199) and anything that might make diving easier for her is a good idea. :babycrawl
She is a clear, blue, and 82 diver. So she only logs a few dives a year. I tried to get her into the Dive Rite Transpac, but she hated it when she tried out a demo.
It may be a gimmick, and I would never buy a BC with one of these systems for myself..... But if it works for you (and hopefully my g/f) then I think its great.
Not everyone needs to dive with a BP/W combo. :cyborg:
She is a clear, blue, and 82 diver. So she only logs a few dives a year. I tried to get her into the Dive Rite Transpac, but she hated it when she tried out a demo.
It may be a gimmick, and I would never buy a BC with one of these systems for myself..... But if it works for you (and hopefully my g/f) then I think its great.
Not everyone needs to dive with a BP/W combo. :cyborg:
Calvinator:
Then as an engineer, you should be well aware there is no new technology in these things. They do the same thing a very simple BC does by way of complex, complicated, convoluted crap to impress newbies and gear freaks.
MD
MaresMan1
Contributor
MechDiver:
MD,
Glad to see you have an open mind. However the way that I look at this is that they do the same thing a very badly designed, complicated, convoluted crap BC does in a simpler way to impress newbies and gear freaks (IMHO). The corrugated hose is a cludge at best, but it was the best they could do back in the 50s and 60s. The only reason that it has lasted so long is that it's cheap to manufacturer.
Ladies and Gents, there are going to be a lot of changes in diving in the coming years. As long as they are safe, dive what you like if it works for you. One of the things that I like about this sport is the versitility. Not everyone has to dive with the same equipment; that would be horrific (in recreation diving). If there is some empirical evidence that these BCs are death traps, I would love to see it. If not, well to each his/her own.
Dive Smart; Dive Safe
Enjoy the ride
:cool1:
OP
Calvinator
Guest
MechDiver:
What I meant was a new way to do the same old thing. Be it more complex or not, this method did not exist 20 years ago, didn't it?
murph-diver
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Hi Calvinator,
To be honest I would not buy either of these BCD's.
I bought one of the first Airtrim models when they came out, the mares Dragonfly and I e-bayed it after the first season diving. To put it simply all these airtrims and flight controls are a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place. They actually create more problems than they solve. For example, I discovered the following problems the hard way:
1. its very difficult to instruct or demonstrate scuba skills with an airtrim when all your students have hoses
2. try putting something in the left pocket of an airtrim jacket and search for the small inflater hose (which is rubber and folds up into a knot) when you need to orally inflate it at 30m
3. try putting something in the right pocket and then disconnect a jammed inflator hose
4. try ditching the integrated weights on a choppy surface without having to almost fully deflate the jacket
5. try listening to "Is that one of HUB things?" a hundred times when ever you get on a new boat.
6. try a buddy check with a first time buddy on holidays as he stares wide eyed at the flight control thing and asks for another buddy.
7. try spending a small fortune on the airtrim-flight control system only to use it on the surface because you are in a dry suit.
8. and finally try sitting down when you get the bill for having the pneumatic gadget serviced every year.
Trends and gadgets come and go in diving but one very clear trend I have noticed is that as divers get more experienced their gear gets simplier. Sooner or later we all start to follow the most basic rule of diving, KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid).
If you must go for a BCD get a sturdy, simple design and leave the flight control and airtrim to the birds.
To be honest I would not buy either of these BCD's.
I bought one of the first Airtrim models when they came out, the mares Dragonfly and I e-bayed it after the first season diving. To put it simply all these airtrims and flight controls are a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place. They actually create more problems than they solve. For example, I discovered the following problems the hard way:
1. its very difficult to instruct or demonstrate scuba skills with an airtrim when all your students have hoses
2. try putting something in the left pocket of an airtrim jacket and search for the small inflater hose (which is rubber and folds up into a knot) when you need to orally inflate it at 30m
3. try putting something in the right pocket and then disconnect a jammed inflator hose
4. try ditching the integrated weights on a choppy surface without having to almost fully deflate the jacket
5. try listening to "Is that one of HUB things?" a hundred times when ever you get on a new boat.
6. try a buddy check with a first time buddy on holidays as he stares wide eyed at the flight control thing and asks for another buddy.
7. try spending a small fortune on the airtrim-flight control system only to use it on the surface because you are in a dry suit.
8. and finally try sitting down when you get the bill for having the pneumatic gadget serviced every year.
Trends and gadgets come and go in diving but one very clear trend I have noticed is that as divers get more experienced their gear gets simplier. Sooner or later we all start to follow the most basic rule of diving, KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid).
If you must go for a BCD get a sturdy, simple design and leave the flight control and airtrim to the birds.
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