Air2 vs Octo

[halocline]

It's amazing how nobody, including myself, can seem to resist posting on the 20 millionith thread on this topic.

Please use the search function, it really works!

Next up, "LDS vs LP: where should I buy my split fins?"

 

[D_B]

One thing that does not get mentioned in these threads is that it's heavy, on a longer hose, and hangs down farther ... I've tried the bungee on the hose to help hold it up better, but I've ended up just holding it to my chest while diving .. you can see me doing that in my pics

The proprietary fitting issue can be solved by carrying an adapter

I'm of the mind that that a longer hose on your primary is mandatory for use with an octo/inflator set up .. without it, your pulling the reg out of the air sharers mouth with anything more than 5 inches away from them


I have one, and I think that I will eventually get rid of it .. have a G250HP to use instead when I do

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Introducing a concept such as Air2 is placing something new and unfamiliar into the equation. Even if you show your buddy the use thereof before you descend, in the split second that something might go wrong, the human mind would revert back to what its instinctively (through drill training) been trained. In other words do expect your buddy to be looking and grabbing for a yellow second stage on your BCD (most possibly on the right side of your BCD).

That's one of the solid arguments behind teaching primary donation. A primary is a primary and it is configuration independent.

I have donated gas three times to recreational divers in OOA situations and in 2 of the 3 the OOA diver (in both cases not my buddy) immediately went for my primary with none of the air share signals or other rubbish that goes out the window when someone really needs gas right now. In the third case, the diver was my buddy, was already heavily leaning toward technical diving, was quite calm and I saw him coming well in advance of his arrival so I had my primary in hand ready to hand off to him.

If you want to do realistic training, trail your buddy by about 20'-30' at a normal swimming pace. Leave your reg in your mouth, but simulate an OOA situation and try to swim down your buddy to get gas. Do it first with full lungs, then simulate the failure after you have completely exhaled. It will be an eye opener. When you arrive at your buddy, (assuming you do so before inhaling off your reg) let me now whether you bothered getting his attention, signalling an OOA, and waited for a response. I already know the answer to that one.

The point being that introducing an Air2 into the OOA situation is going to be a moot issue. The odds are good the OOA buddy will go for your primary, and if you are really on top of the situation and see your buddy coming, you will hand your buddy your primary anyway (since primary donation goes hand in hand with using an Air 2). In either case, the buddy will NOT be looking for your octo.

Again, if you want to train realistically, unclip your octo and then have your buddy come borrow some gas sometime during the dive. Odds are the octo will end up back by your tank tank or in some other dififcult to locate place - where it will tend to end up if it comes unclipped during the dive. There is a chance that you will end up snatching your primary back (warn your buddy in advance) or you will end up going for his octo, especially if you combine that with your buddy taking your primary just after you exhaled. At a minimum, it will make you a believer in an easy to find octo - either a bungeed octo or an Air 2.

...I had to have a longer hose attached to my AIRII...

...I have had problems with free flows and slow leaks from the AIR II. This got annoying enough that I wound up doing one dive on the AIRII so I was not "wasting" the air or having to listen to it bubbling. By the end of the dive (90 minutes) my jaw was awful sore because of the bulk of the AIRII and the cumbersome nature of it being attached to the inflator hose. My neck was sore from having to cant my head to the side to breath off the AIR II.

I agree with you that an Air 2 works best with a slightly longer than normal corrogated inflator hose.

I am also not surprised your neck got sore after using an Air 2 for an entire dive. The Air 2 was never intended for extended use.

The Air 2 is also not any more freeflow prone than any other octo design, if it is freeflowing it is in need of adjustment. What is less obvious is that an Octo with the same slight freeflow is often missed due to where the Octo is located during the dive. That is again a strong argument for both an Air 2 or a bungeed Octo.

-----

It is probably pretty obvious that I prefer the bungeed octo given my technical diving, and that I think an Air 2 is fine (easy to find and consistent with primary donation and a long hose configuration) and that the only thing I really oppose is the traditional octo in the traditional "golden triangle" location and in particular combined with a "donate the octo" philosophy - as it simply does not work all that well in the real world as there are too many things that can go wrong.

 

[victor]

I like my AIR 2, I have used it for over 15 years and it has only let me down once, freeflow as the seat was damaged. My fault I should have checked it after the winter layoff.

However it is not great for traveling. It uses a non standard hose so if it fails on vacation you cannot mix and match so easily.

I am in the process of replacing my gear, most is > 15 years old. Would I buy another, maybe not, but I do like the reduced clutter.

I have always used mine for 3 or 4 minutes every other dive, otherwise how do you know it is working properly.
If I am sharing air I will always donate my primary. The OA diver needs a working reg and they will take the one in your mouth as they know exactly where it is. A bungee secondary or Air2 are about equal in this situation, dump any air in your BC and I want the recipient to be very very close, I will be holding their BC pretty tightly so the primary does not need to be on a long hose.

 

[halocline]

It is true that the one time I've had to share air in an "emergency" was when a fellow DMT got confused about demonstrating an air share drill for OW students and grabbed the primary out of my mouth. We had a good laugh over that one, as we were kneeling in 10 ft of water during a confined OW session. At that session I was using the PADI standard short primary hose and octo on my chest. Apparently the DMT panicked when the instructor turned off her tank and she did not see a yellow octo. Anyhow, she yanked me off my knees pulling the short primary hose.

To me, this is yet another reason to use the long primary hose/bungied octo. While an octo/inflator can certainly be configured in this way, it often is not, especially considering the fact that reducing the number of hoses is the typical "advantage" that's sold with these devices. In that sense, showing a customer a 5 ft primary hose will tend to negate the perceived advantage of 'streamlining', even though a modified long hose routing is in fact more streamlined than the typical big-loop approach.

When I post on these threads (I've really got to learn to resist) I always mention the increased size of the octo/inflator device over a standard inflator, it's prominent location, and how to me that does not improve diving comfort over a compact inflator on a 12" corrugated hose and a neatly stowed bungied octo that hangs right under my chin.

 

[OldNSalty]

TSandM gave the best answer, I will just add a bit about the buoyancy issue. I use AIR2 and I dive in the Gulf, if this is where you are going to be diving (given that you are in Tx) then I think the argument that trying to maintain buoyancy while sharing your reg and using an AIR2 is a little weak. In other words, at least for me, diving in the relatively warm water down here I don’t need to make a lot of adjustments to my BC and therefore the idea that it would be difficult to adjust your buoyancy isn’t as a big of a factor. Just something else to consider.

 

[djtimmy77]

I've used my SS1 for an OOA situation, and it worked perfectly well. My regular buddies all have Air2's, so we are pretty standardized.

 

[RAWalker]

If you want to do realistic training, trail your buddy by about 20'-30' at a normal swimming pace. Leave your reg in your mouth, but simulate an OOA situation and try to swim down your buddy to get gas. Do it first with full lungs, then simulate the failure after you have completely exhaled. It will be an eye opener. When you arrive at your buddy, (assuming you do so before inhaling off your reg) let me now whether you bothered getting his attention, signalling an OOA, and waited for a response. I already know the answer to that one.

I think you have actually demonstrated the distance you should be from your buddy in real life situations should be less than 20'! In real life unless you have a redundant air source the optimal range from your buddy is 10-15'. This is something we should all be discussing with our buddies. If your buddy is getting over 20' away from you he just isn't paying attention. This is particulary important in low vis where vis should be a limiting factor on separation distance. This is why buddy lines are generally no longer than 15'. Just because vis may be over 50' doesn't mean you should open up the gap between you. The only exception is buddies that each have redundant air supplies other than their buddy. I real life a good buddy is right there with you!
The Air 2 vs standard Octo is a question of preference if you are properly trained and prepared on each. However I'd agree that we should all be prepared to have our primary donated for us during OOA situations. The OOA diver wants and needs air first and foremost and once that is accomplished we can reel in the situation from becoming anything else.
I dive an Air 2 style myself with a primary on a 5' hose and recently started using a pony when diving with students since in many ways when working with students you may as well be solo diving.

 

[101recon]

I used an Octo-Z (Zeagles Air2) on my 3rd dive for cert.We did the buddy-breathing drill and I really liked it.Naturally it breathed a bit harder than my primary but not enough to be uncomfortable.Just used the shoulder dump for ascent.I liked it enough to get one.I keep it attached to the inflator hose and store it in my reg bag with my primary.

 

[ibj40]

I'd like to come in, agreeing with those that feel that the Air2 has merit. I also had an Air1 (or AirTon), and it was so heavy that I was looking for ways to restrain it from hanging in the sand. With my Air2, I really appreciate the compactness and availability (it's for me, isn't it?). I acknowledge that my primary isn't on a yellow hose or have a yellow facepiece and exhaust (as my wife's does), but from what has been said here, color doesn't influence where an OOA goes for air, they are going for the most accessible. The fact that my Air2 is close to me, and restricted in terms of another diver, actually gives me confidence that I will always have air access.

When I am diving with new partners (my wife is always my buddy, and she knows my equipment), I will go out of my way to point out that my Safe Second is an Air2. I have to say that in almost 25 years of diving, I have only had the occasion to offer air once, and in that case, my Air1 had shot craps on the first tank of a two tanker, and I was diving with a donated power inflator on my BCD (in order to not have the free-flowing Air1 on and to have an oral inflate capability), and I didn't have an octo to offer, and ended up buddy breathing.

I'll keep my Air2, and keep those around me familiar with what I am diving with.