Air sharing with a RB

[O2BBubbleFree]

As you may know from my previous posts, I'm a CCR wannabe. After reading all 10,576-or-so posts on the "Using A Long Hose Isn't Just For Tech Divers" thread, I'm trying to assimilate the info and apply it to my RB dreams.

So, anyway, what's the best alternate air source to carry with a RB? I realize there are other options to consider before bailout, but loop failures happen, right?

I have seen posts and pix of various RBs with an octo/inflator device. OK for the RB diver in case of a full-blown loop failure, but not 'sharable' if someone else has an OOA.

In reading about an RB incident elsewhere on the web, the survivor was advocating a necklace second, so that if you happen to get a mouth full of soda-sludge, you can access your backup quickly. Again, this isn’t sharable.

I guess the DSVs with attached second stage would meet the immediate-access requirement, but also not sharable.

Obviously the long hose option (and any form of donating your primary) is out of the question. But that begs the question, have any of you ever had a panicking OC diver try to take the loop? What would you do? Do you have two alternates, just in case said panicky OOA OC diver floods your loop, and now two people are OOA?

I’m thinking that the ultimate setup may be a necklaced backup (fed by the diluent) for the RB diver, and a slung pony for other divers. I’m favoring the slung pony because it provides complete redundancy, and you can hand it off if the situation warrants. What do you think?

 

[wedivebc]

As you may know from my previous posts, I'm a CCR wannabe. After reading all 10,576-or-so posts on the "Using A Long Hose Isn't Just For Tech Divers" thread, I'm trying to assimilate the info and apply it to my RB dreams.

So, anyway, what's the best alternate air source to carry with a RB? I realize there are other options to consider before bailout, but loop failures happen, right?

I have seen posts and pix of various RBs with an octo/inflator device. OK for the RB diver in case of a full-blown loop failure, but not 'sharable' if someone else has an OOA.

In reading about an RB incident elsewhere on the web, the survivor was advocating a necklace second, so that if you happen to get a mouth full of soda-sludge, you can access your backup quickly. Again, this isn’t sharable.

I guess the DSVs with attached second stage would meet the immediate-access requirement, but also not sharable.

Obviously the long hose option (and any form of donating your primary) is out of the question. But that begs the question, have any of you ever had a panicking OC diver try to take the loop? What would you do? Do you have two alternates, just in case said panicky OOA OC diver floods your loop, and now two people are OOA?

I’m thinking that the ultimate setup may be a necklaced backup (fed by the diluent) for the RB diver, and a slung pony for other divers. I’m favoring the slung pony because it provides complete redundancy, and you can hand it off if the situation warrants. What do you think?

My opinion may not agree with the current trend in diving mentality but I, as a rebreather diver tend to be more self sufficient. The are certain emergencies that may benefit from buddy intervention. Loss of consciousness is one biggie, but I don't dive my rebreather with the requirement for a buddy to bail me out. I carry bailout gas for me to deal with an immediate failure. In a deco profile I may rely on a buddy's deco gas to get me through a loop failure but only after exhausting the contingency gas I was carrying.
The concept of your buddy being your redundant , whatever, is less prevelent at least with the people I dive with.
I have 2 OC bailout options. 1 air 2 on my wing inflator fed from my diluent tank. I also sling a 30cuft bailout gas in case I need to stay on OC for a little while.

 

[caveseeker7]

In my opinion the OC integrated DSV is the best solution for the RB diver as there is no need to change mouthpieces, and no loop hoses being dragged around. With most rebreathers having fairly small tanks (2 ltrs are all the rage, and 3 ltrs pretty much standard for most CCRs) my guess is that most rebreather divers carry a separate bailout tank of some sort which is usually fitted with its own second stage (even if plugable into the loop or OC/DSV).

A tank like that also takes care of OC buddies. If you're diving with them on a regular basis however it should not be a problem for you to ask them to carry a small pony system, too.

Alsthough rare and not usually taught to recreational divers, buddy breathing a rebreather is possible (and taught in the military, the German at least). Much like the old twin hose regs with the addition of having to shut down and open the DSV. Not something you want to try without training, much less with an OC buddy.

 

[padiscubapro]

In my opinion the OC integrated DSV is the best solution for the RB diver as there is no need to change mouthpieces, and no loop hoses being dragged around. With most rebreathers having fairly small tanks (2 ltrs are all the rage, and 3 ltrs pretty much standard for most CCRs) my guess is that most rebreather divers carry a separate bailout tank of some sort which is usually fitted with its own second stage (even if plugable into the loop or OC/DSV).

A tank like that also takes care of OC buddies. If you're diving with them on a regular basis however it should not be a problem for you to ask them to carry a small pony system, too.

Alsthough rare and not usually taught to recreational divers, buddy breathing a rebreather is possible (and taught in the military, the German at least). Much like the old twin hose regs with the addition of having to shut down and open the DSV. Not something you want to try without training, much less with an OC buddy.

Believe it or not That was part of all ANDI rebreather programs for a long time.. It even was part or our Inspiration class originally.. It was dropped due to objections people had sharing a loop...

Basically the diver who needs the gas has to "mount" the donating diver from above.. You better be close friends

The best coarse of action for a RB diver is to carry his/her own bailout.. For recreational dives or short deco dives this is not an issue plus it allows handoff od a cylinder to an OC diver in tbl..Dives with moe than a little deco need to be planned with a team concept.. Planning for the team to get 1.5 "divers" out of trouble is the norm.

I recommend the diver carry 40cf cylinders (single for recreational dives, dual for deco sives).. the cylinders are an ideal size in that they give a reasonable amount of bailout gas ples they are long enough that when slung they stay in place... smaller cylinders like 30s tend to move infront of your body instead of staying along your side..

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

I plan to use the RB on 'regular' recreational dives, so want to be able to supply gas to an OOA OC diver, should I be buddied with one or they just happen to come along. I think the slung pony/bailout is the way to go, and that's something I can implement and get accustomed to with my current OC rig, and carry over to RB when the money tree blossoms.

I have a further question, though.

From the "Rebreathers Worldwide" site:

http://www.therebreathersite.nl/rebreatherblunders.htm#three

"I swallowed a small amount of the caustic liquid, but before I ever had a conscious clue as to what was happening I found myself choking and coughing through my bailout regulator, which I fortunately had been wearing necklace style on a loop of surgical tubing such that it was always no more than a few inches away from my mouth."

From what I've been reading on this site over the last few months, OC divers that use the necklaced backup prefer it because you can switch quickly without needing your hands (although I admit that I haven't tried this). Seems to me this would be worth considering, as could be a faster switch than even an integrated DSV (which would require turning the selector). What do you think?

 

[padiscubapro]

I plan to use the RB on 'regular' recreational dives, so want to be able to supply gas to an OOA OC diver, should I be buddied with one or they just happen to come along. I think the slung pony/bailout is the way to go, and that's something I can implement and get accustomed to with my current OC rig, and carry over to RB when the money tree blossoms.

I have a further question, though.

From the "Rebreathers Worldwide" site:

http://www.therebreathersite.nl/rebreatherblunders.htm#three

"I swallowed a small amount of the caustic liquid, but before I ever had a conscious clue as to what was happening I found myself choking and coughing through my bailout regulator, which I fortunately had been wearing necklace style on a loop of surgical tubing such that it was always no more than a few inches away from my mouth."

From what I've been reading on this site over the last few months, OC divers that use the necklaced backup prefer it because you can switch quickly without needing your hands (although I admit that I haven't tried this). Seems to me this would be worth considering, as could be a faster switch than even an integrated DSV (which would require turning the selector). What do you think?

That happened on a drager which has no/little water trapping ability...

I had 2 rebreather floods in the thousands of hours I have logged.On the first flood after completeing my deco I had about 1 liter of water in the cannister and no caustic coctail issue, on my second flood I had several liters of water in my inhale lung and again no issues... most common designs can trap alot of water and the diver will know! the drager scubber/bag arrangement will trap some water but give no indication..

I always use a sling configuration with no necklaced reg.. with the drager, many use the onboard gas a s bailout and a necklace would work, You NEVER attach a reg from a sling bottle to your body, its always secured cleanly on the bottle..

I personally dont like integrated oc regs.. the onboard gas is usually too small and connecting offboard supplies isn;t the neatest arrangement althoughthere are ways it could be accomplished witha minimum of mess..

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Thanks, all.

Maybe I'll just go with a slung pony.

 

[wedivebc]

When I am diving with OC buddies for the first time I show them my bailout bottle and how to deply it, how to close my DSV should they need to remove my mouthpeice and I usually remind the person leading the dive I would rather swim around a mound than over it. Some people go into more detail such as how to read PO2 monitors etc but I save that for regular buddies.

 

[DepthCharge]

Believe it or not That was part of all ANDI rebreather programs for a long time.. It even was part or our Inspiration class originally.. It was dropped due to objections people had sharing a loop...

Let's see..sharing a loop or dying...........sharing a loop or dying.........mmmmmmmmm :33:

 

[wedivebc]

Let's see..sharing a loop or dying...........sharing a loop or dying.........mmmmmmmmm :33:

I'm sure that unless practiced frequently it puts both divers in grave danger. I did practice it on my rebreather (ANDI) course but it would be an absolute last resort. I would not make it part of my bailout plan.