Air management for beginner.

[Soggy]

OK, so I rounded up for clarity. It was actually 2.7XXX.

Wow. And this diver was certified with that kind of ridiculous SAC? They would have to change tanks in an 8 ft deep pool after about 23 minutes. Who the heck would certify someone that uncomfortable in the water?

Even if that is the case, chances are, after a few dives it would settle down to something more reasonable. You might as well give them some planning tools and teach them how to figure out their SAC rate. Be on the boat with 500 psi certainly won't work any better, nor will 1/3rds, which is completely insufficient for any dive below about 80 ft.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Actually, I had a student in one of my AOW classes who had a measured working SAC rate of 2.8 cfm ... but that was on the "speed swim" that I use to get the respiratory rate up to a working level. I advised him that it might be a good reason to consider giving up the smokes, as that's what he could expect to see if he should have to swim into a good, stiff current ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Adobo]

Obviously, millions of safe dives are made, world-wide, by divers who have no clue of gas management.

Explain.

Daniel, I am dying over here. On one thread, I am getting beat to death about how you cannot have to much knowledge or skill (with reference to CESA) and then on this thread, we got people talking about there is no need for the masses to know gas planning given that "millions of safe dives are made by divers with no clue about gas management."

It comes across as if the approach that some of the folks are championing is "the heck" with gas planning and if things go sour, do a CESA.

Is that really the message?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Daniel, I am dying over here. On one thread, I am getting beat to death about how you cannot have to much knowledge or skill (with reference to CESA) and then on this thread, we got people talking about there is no need for the masses to know gas planning given that "millions of safe dives are made by divers with no clue about gas management."

It comes across as if the approach that some of the folks are championing is "the heck" with gas planning and if things go sour, do a CESA.

Is that really the message?

That's about what I'm getting ... in fact, that CESA thread is so full of misinformation I didn't even bother trying to participate ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Blackwood]

Many thousands of dives where no one runs out of gas are accomplished every year without knowing the gas management calculations that are being discussed in this thread.

Likewise, thousands of people run out of fuel on the freeway because they didn't bother thinking ahead.

Of course, when you are driving somewhere and run out of gas the only penalty is monetary. When you are diving somewhere and run out of gas, the penalty may be much, much steeper.

It seems, really, that gas management wouldn't have helped the last several dozen diving deaths. I keep track. Most deaths due to drownings are as a result of a massive screw-up (look at the five most recent Florida deaths) or health related issuses.

True.

But health related issues may not be readily preventable.

Massive screwups such as carrying insufficient gas are preventable. Thus a little bit of time should be spent discussing it.

If PADI took out two or three of the self-promoting "visit your local PADI dive shop or 5 star resort" interjections from the course material, it could be covered (as you mentioned that it should be).

One thing I find odd is how much the entirely theoretical deco tables are drilled into the ground, but a simple, easy, known and true way to account for gas usage is thought of as unimportant information overload (especially considering that many people will throw out everything they (think they) know about deco when they run out of gas).

 

[Rick Murchison]

You may find these useful.
They have recreational NDL diving with AL80's in mind.
Note that none of them are much good without knowing your SAC rate.
Rick

 

[daniel f aleman]

Look, the similies are getting out of hand.

The fact IS that, "millions of safe dives are made by divers with no clue about gas management." That's emperically known. That's it. 99% of those dives are made within OW recommendations, somehow they live.

And as I've said a gazillion times: I am ALL for extensive training, and one should never dive beyond his training. But the training agencies can't demand from divers that which they feel is not needed.

 

[Blackwood]

But the training agencies can't demand from divers that which they feel is not needed.

Which is why it's worth discussing.

 

[Lehmann108]

I'm a rank newbie and drift diving in Florida at 60' we start the ascent at 800 psi. There is no turn-around because there ain't no turn-around!

 

[lamont]

The fact IS that, "millions of safe dives are made by divers with no clue about gas management." That's emperically known. That's it. 99% of those dives are made within OW recommendations, somehow they live.

You need to invert that. A lot of fatalities, accidents and near-accidents involve OOA situations that would be avoidable through gas management.

We seem to run about one fatality or diver hospitalized due an OOA a year here in Seattle at one of our most popular dive sites. There are lots and lots of successful dives as the crowded conditions in the parking lot suggest, but the unsuccessful ones seem to be leaning towards OOA as the cause.