Air integration for tech dives

[kelemvor]

What do you expect shearwater to say? One of our features/selling points is actually fairly useless in tech diving?

If it's true of a feature, then yes - I expect exactly that. Shearwater now have many features that are aimed squarely at rec divers and they don't obscure that fact.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I dunno who she is. I dunno who anybody is. My only point is, the manufacturer is not going to put up an article that says our features are ****.

Perhaps you should google her name before dismissing her? I'm not to say that you should instantly prostrate yourself to your seniors, but her accomplishments speak for themselves and her opinions deserve at least some respect and not to dismissed with no consideration like she is a shill.

But honestly it sounds like you just want confirmation of your opinions than to have a discussion with modern cave divers. While the strict DIR divers hasn't embraced AI, which is to be expected, those outside of that are routinely using AI for back gas in sidemount and has some limited penetration in BM doubles, though in those cases it is in addition to a normal SPG rather than a replacement.

Stages and deco bottles, I honestly haven't embraced it for a couple of reasons. First I want a gauge so I can hand them off to a buddy in an emergency, and I haven't figured a good way to get both while keeping the transmitter protected.

Second there isn't a good way to quickly change the computer's home screen, nor the ability to combine fields that aren't transmitter related. So if I want T3 and T4 on the screen I would have to sacrifice at least one of the fields that I like to have on my home screen. I sent a feature request to Shearwater to have a mini-display for the Teric, but even then for non-stage dives or single stage dives I wouldn't want to always have both on screen. So it would be nice to be able to quickly switch between home screen configurations.

I don't mind the gauge on stage/deco bottles, as you can almost do it hands free, charge the gauge and look down. Compared to sidemount gauge checks which are at least a one handed affair that takes a bit of time. I can always tell when my gauge using SM buddies are checking their gas... well at least the ones that have good light discipline.

And before you ask, yes I am a full cave diver, and I routinely dive with a stage plus the usual deco bottle. While working on how best to do double stage dives in sidemount. So 4 bottles is the norm for me.

 

[boulderjohn]

I will take a moment to step into this long enough to say that I dived with Natalie Gibb long before she had her present operation and while she was writing mostly as the scuba authority on About.com. I cannot imagine her risking her reputation to write a puff piece on behalf of a manufacturer. If she wrote it, she believed it.

 

[Tracy]

This whole thread is very reminiscent of recreational dive computers 10 years ago.
"You should learn and use tables, computers are a fad."
It is also sounds a lot like, "You need to know how to do this, you won't be carrying around a calculator in your pocket your whole life."

I switched my rebreather to AI a couple years ago. I was tired of spool leaks and wanted the reliability of transmitters. I haven't had an HP leak since the switch. I recently switched my BM doubles rig to a transmitter for the same reason.
They work, and they don't have spool leaks.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

This whole thread is very reminiscent of recreational dive computers 10 years ago.
"You should learn and use tables, computers are a fad."
It is also sounds a lot like, "You need to know how to do this, you won't be carrying around a calculator in your pocket your whole life."

I switched my rebreather to AI a couple years ago. I was tired of spool leaks and wanted the reliability of transmitters. I haven't had an HP leak since the switch. I recently switched my BM doubles rig to a transmitter for the same reason.
They work, and they don't have spool leaks.

Would you / do you use transmitters on deco tanks? Or do you stick with buttons or SPG's?

 

[Adobo]

Perhaps you should google her name before dismissing her? I'm not to say that you should instantly prostrate yourself to your seniors, but her accomplishments speak for themselves and her opinions deserve at least some respect and not to dismissed with no consideration like she is a shill.

A couple of people have used the word shill (or the synonym "fan girl") in this thread. Not me though.

The problem with any expert's testimonial as it relates to this discussion is that I have no ability to ask details. I have no ability to ask for clarifications on why the expert thinks something. About how they came to their conclusions. And going to Shearwater's website, it's not like they are posting rebuttals to the testimonials.

But honestly it sounds like you just want confirmation of your opinions than to have a discussion with modern cave divers.

You can think what you want. That's your god given right.

While the strict DIR divers hasn't embraced AI, which is to be expected, those outside of that are routinely using AI for back gas in sidemount and has some limited penetration in BM doubles, though in those cases it is in addition to a normal SPG rather than a replacement.

Stages and deco bottles, I honestly haven't embraced it for a couple of reasons. First I want a gauge so I can hand them off to a buddy in an emergency, and I haven't figured a good way to get both while keeping the transmitter protected.

Second there isn't a good way to quickly change the computer's home screen, nor the ability to combine fields that aren't transmitter related. So if I want T3 and T4 on the screen I would have to sacrifice at least one of the fields that I like to have on my home screen. I sent a feature request to Shearwater to have a mini-display for the Teric, but even then for non-stage dives or single stage dives I wouldn't want to always have both on screen. So it would be nice to be able to quickly switch between home screen configurations.

I don't mind the gauge on stage/deco bottles, as you can almost do it hands free, charge the gauge and look down. Compared to sidemount gauge checks which are at least a one handed affair that takes a bit of time. I can always tell when my gauge using SM buddies are checking their gas... well at least the ones that have good light discipline.

And before you ask, yes I am a full cave diver, and I routinely dive with a stage plus the usual deco bottle. While working on how best to do double stage dives in sidemount. So 4 bottles is the norm for me.

If we were to separate backmount vs. sidemount..

For backmount open water tech diving or cave diving, AI is used in conjunction with the SPG. Seems like the same discussion as backmount recreational diving. It allows the diver to get information on their wrist rather than having grab the SPG. Nothing unique for tech or cave diving. And for that convenience, you add a transmitter on a reg. I suspect the cost (include additional risks)/benefit analysis, particularly cave divers, would be interesting. I myself think that AI has minimal utility for recreational diving. And even less so for tech divers who presumably have mastered the basic skill of unclipping their SPG and re-stowing it after they are done. But hey, I suppose everyone has opinions.

For sidemount, I leave it to you guys to discuss. I have zero experience and practically zero knowledge.

 

[DAJ]

I us AI and a SPG for redundancy. Not wanting to get into the argument of a "requirement" or a "need", it's just another tool that adds a layer of convenience. If I am going to look at a piece of gear for information (depth gauge, pressure gauge, bottom timer, compass...etc.) it's not necessarily a bad thing to have all that info in one screen at a glance. For my deco cylinders, I use SPG. While I do know folks that have transmitters on every cylinder they carry, that's an extra expense I don't find worth it. Either way, if you want AI, use it. If you don't feel it provides any benefit, then don't. I never understood the continuing arguments to justify why someone uses a piece of gear that someone else does not find useful.

 

[Adobo]

This whole thread is very reminiscent of recreational dive computers 10 years ago.
"You should learn and use tables, computers are a fad."
It is also sounds a lot like, "You need to know how to do this, you won't be carrying around a calculator in your pocket your whole life."

I switched my rebreather to AI a couple years ago. I was tired of spool leaks and wanted the reliability of transmitters. I haven't had an HP leak since the switch. I recently switched my BM doubles rig to a transmitter for the same reason.
They work, and they don't have spool leaks.

Shrug.

15+ years ago, the scubapro guy was touting that with their air integrated computers and air2, a diver is down to 2 hoses. This air integration thing isn't new. The thing I am trying to get my arms round is what utility does it add for tech diving. So far as I can tell, nothing specific to tech diving. It's the same argument that was made 15+ years ago.. puts information on your wrist.

Whether or not there is utility in putting how much gas you have remaining on your wrist, I suppose each person will have to decide on their own. But like going from 4 hoses down to 2 hoses, I just scratch my head as I wonder why that optimization is of any value.

 

[tursiops]

I never understood the continuing arguments to justify why someone uses a piece of gear that someone else does not find useful.

LOL. Because that other person questions your choice and denigrates it if it is not the same as theirs. I think they may be secretly afraid that they are doing something "wrong" and want to declare that what they are doing is "right" and it is you that are wrong.

 

[Adobo]

I us AI and a SPG for redundancy. Not wanting to get into the argument of a "requirement" or a "need", it's just another tool that adds a layer of convenience. If I am going to look at a piece of gear for information (depth gauge, pressure gauge, bottom timer, compass...etc.) it's not necessarily a bad thing to have all that info in one screen at a glance. For my deco cylinders, I use SPG. While I do know folks that have transmitters on every cylinder they carry, that's an extra expense I don't find worth it. Either way, if you want AI, use it. If you don't feel it provides any benefit, then don't. I never understood the continuing arguments to justify why someone uses a piece of gear that someone else does not find useful.

I have heard all kinds of different answers on this for backmount. One person says his AI can support something like 14 transmitters. I mean, there are lots of things in life that can be done. But the question is, what is useful?

They way I was taught tech diving (back mount, stage / deco botttles go on the left chest and hip), I don't see the utility of having AI on stage / deco bottles. The regs for each bottle are on your left chest. I suppose one could argue that getting to the SPG when you have more than one bottle clipped on starts to get complex. But on the other hand, if you can't manage this, how are you going to manage clipping on and unclipping bottles? Mastering clipping things on and off D-rings is a needed skill, particularly as one advances to more aggressive types of diving.