Agencies and Nitrox

[Rick Murchison]

notabob once bubbled...
Anyone know if the SSI nitrox course cover o2 tox recognition as part of a standard curriculum?

Yes.
Signs and symptoms and response to them are covered over and over and over. A major heading in the course is "Recognizing and responding to CNS oxygen toxicity." In emphasis, OxTox (and its avoidance) is the core of the course, followed by oxygen safety, then the advantages to using Nitrox. Managing nitrogen exposure is a review. The whole course is structured to build an understanding of how the whole body of Nitrox diving procedures are designed with OxTox and other oxygen related problems avoidance in mind as well as taking advantage of breathing less nitrogen.
We do not teach "best mix" at the entry level.
Rick

 

[Walter]

.................and I wonder why neither PADI nor SSI teach best mix. This is a formula I use prior to planning any nitrox dive. It's very useful.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The PADI course does teach the "best mix" calculation.

Nitrox training dives, in my very strong (STRONG) opinion are not a joke. During training dives the students must demonstrate the ability to apply their new planning skills in the diving environment. It's one thing to pass a written test but another to plan a dive and dive a plan. The dives are hands on experience that drive the theory home. I need to make a list of the agencies who don't require dives so I can avoid selling those divers nitrox. That should raise some hackles huh.

You think that's bad...I don't think I will even sell air to someone with a SDI solo cert. And...if I have to rescue them I will charge extra.

 

[raviepoo]

Do they discuss it in class or do they do dives where they simulate O2 toxicity in the water and let the student go through recognition and rescue? How would a student who has not taken the Rescue Diver course be expected to rescue their buddy from an O2 toxicity situation without compromising their own safety?

We discussed this stuff in my PADI nitrox class but I'm not confident that I would recognize symptoms that I have never actually seen or experienced. (And no, I DON'T want to ever experience them.)

kcanty once bubbled...
There was just a thread on a different 'group'
about this subject and the most telling message
was from an instructor. He stated that the most
important part of a nitrox course could/would be
recognition and rescue of a buddy with o2 tox.

Kell

I think a lot of other useful information comes out of the PADI nitrox class:

This stuff is not really safer than air;
If you use this stuff incorrectly it can kill you;
Oxygen can explode if handled incorrectly;
Gear must be appropriate for oxygen service;
Don't try this (mixing your own) at home, boys and girls;
etc.

I met an instructor once who told me that he has all of his open water students dive nitrox despite the fact that they are not trained for it because it is "safer." That one remark made me decide to steer clear of the guy and the shop he works for.

 

[Walter]

Mike,

"The PADI course does teach the "best mix" calculation."

I know several folks who've taken the course. They tell me it's not in the text and wasn't covered in their class. I have no first hand knowledge on the subject.

Your statement is reassuring.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Walter,
there may be a difference in terminology that is throwing them for a loop. I'll look at the text and see if I can see what it is.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The PADI text uses the term "optimum blend" rather than "best mix and only gives it a passing note. Aside from a cursory mention they leave it to the instructor/student to see that the tables and equations can be used in one direction to solve for depth or partial presure and in the other direction to solve for mix. I would concede that it is a deficiency in the text but that's what I'm there for.

 

[Stone]

raviepoo once bubbled...
I met an instructor once who told me that he has all of his open water students dive nitrox despite the fact that they are not trained for it because it is "safer." That one remark made me decide to steer clear of the guy and the shop he works for.

If he trains students over a hard bottom in 60 fsw and on air tables, I'd say the students *do* have a safety margin.

If the bottom is at 150 fsw, he might lose a student occationally.

;-0

 

[Walter]

Mike,

Thanks for the clarification.

"I would concede that it is a deficiency in the text but that's what I'm there for."

I'd expect that of you regardless of the program or the deficiency.

 

[Spectre]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
The dives are hands on experience that drive the theory home.

Mike,
This might come off argumentative, but it's not ment to be. What do you feel, realistically, is added to the nitrox course during the OW training? Now by that I don't mean what you would teach [since it's clear to me that you go far above and beyond the required curricula].

Personally, I feel the only real use of the OW dives is to ensure that the student has the proper control to keep themselves above MODs; since the course can be taken by someone right out of their OW course. As disturbing as it is however, I imagine that there aren't many instructors out there that would fail a student in their Nitrox course if they had bad bouyancy control.

I'm trying to keep the hackles down, but yes; I got my nitrox certification through TDI, and didn't do any dives for it. I wanted the certification for a trip that I was heading on, and there just wasn't enough time to get dives in before the trip [I was on a plane less than 24 hours after my EAN certification test].

The LDS had no problem allowing me to take the TDI certification test and not do dives [as opposed to the PADI course that he was actually running] because he knew me, he's dove with me, and knows that I'm capable of the dive planning and UW control required to be safe with EAN.

I'm just curious as to what you feel is added to the course by requiring the dives.