Advice Requested - Compact Environmentally-Sealed Diaphragm 1st Stages for Travel - BM Single and Pony use.

[-JD-]

I am looking to be doing more (Air)Travel Rec diving and, while I have been well-served by my HOG D1 & D3 firsts, I want to move to something more compact and lighter to make travel easier and reduce Pony-roll. I don't believe I need the turret or 5th port for this use

Requirements:

• Environmentally sealed (native or with a kit) diaphragm. (Locally I dive in cool murky water and, having just returned from a Blackbeard's trip with 16 salt dips and no rinsing option, I want the nasty stuff kept on the outside)
• End-user available service kits and service manuals. (I will be getting HOG, and possibly D6, service cert - hopefully later this year. Similar designs would be an advantage)
• Convertibility from DIN to Yoke for my BM reg. (My home tanks are essentially all 300bar DIN and I want to be able to convert to yoke for travel. Yes, I have DIN-Yoke adapters, but I mount my cylinder pretty high and need all the headspace I can get.)

BM Singles Routing Preference:

• I'm probably going to use a "traditional(ish)" configuration with an over the shoulder primary and a clipped Octo with an under-the arm hose. I believe that parallel (and perpendicular to the valve) LP ports are probably going to be more routing friendly. The "flared" LP ports on the turret tend to put an outward pressure on the primary hose when looking straight ahead or to the right. I'm currently using a D400 primary with a 70/110 elbow - losing the elbow might mitigate the push at the expense of pull when looking left.
• I am using an over-the-shoulder HP hose with an attached transmitter and backup button gauge - radical down-angled HP ports are not likely to be an advantage for me.

Pony Info:

• I'm essentially sidemounting/slinging the pony with a 40" hose.
• I plan to route the hose down, bungee strapped to the bottle, and should have more than sufficient length without needing a turret.
• 19, 27, and 40 AL bottles depending on situation.
• Light-weight is a serious advantage to reduce Pony-roll/counter-weighting requirements.

First-pass Candidates:

• HOG D2 - $180 (Pro-my D3 yoke-conversion kit should work for it.)
• Deep Six Excursion - $170 (Looks like it is fundamentally the same as the HOG D2.)
• Dive Rite FT1 - $280 (Parts kits and Service manual directly available from DGX.)

Rejected:

• Apeks - DS4 and XTX200 - All I can see is that they cost an insane amount more in the US and are significantly harder (not impossible) to get parts kits for.

My current thinking is FT1 for the BM Single use due to the parallel LP ports and a D2 for my pony since it stays in my existing HOG ecosystem and saves $100.

I'm looking for:

• Alternate options that I am overlooking.
• Critiques (Since I know they are coming unless I actually posted somewhere other than SB. )
• Reviews/Experience/Pros/Cons with the identified regs.

TIA, Folks!

 

[tbone1004]

I would stay with the HOG D2 or Deep6 Excursion *for all intents and purposes they are identical* even for single tank. Keeps the parts kits the same which is nice. I wouldn't look anywhere else personally.

 

[-JD-]

Thanks @tbone1004 . Not ignoring, just hoping others might chime in with different perspectives.

I'm going to look into acquiring a D2/Excursion for my pony at least ...

The more I look at the LP locations on them (D2/Excursion) though, the less comfortable I think the short-hose routing will be for BM singles. It is a shame that they don't have a bottom port.

 

[rhwestfall]

@-JD- I recently sat through a class conducted by a well known regulator guru here on SB. One regulator he used in teaching of theory was a Sherwood SR2. It is a dry sealed flow thru piston! I'm really now interested in them, and would likely be on the top of my list if I was to be getting any new gear.... I still may get one.....

Keeping in mind that Sherwood was the developer and producer of top line SCUBA regulators for themselves and others early on and are a simply pinnacle regulator designer/manufacturer outside SCUBA, I'm really interested...

No, not a diaphragm, and I don't want to irritate you for suggesting something outside your listed criteria, but maybe take a look..... see if it checks any boxes in a way you are seeking.

Also - Your HOG rigs will continue to meet your needs.... the wife and daughter have d1 sets for our home cold waters.

I am a die hard ScubaPro junkie (not their high-end pistons) and they are my preference, but do not meet your requirement of OTC kits. They can be obtained, just not in conventional manner... I'd say there is actually more information out there for SP than many others, all however "unsanctioned"....

YMMV

 

[Shabaday]

The Deep6 signature series isn't all that lightweight
I have never handled a ScubaPro Mk11 or Mk17 but would that fit the bill?

 

[loosenit2]

One difference between HOG D2 and D6 Excursion is O2 rating. May not make a difference for your application but HOG advertises D2 as 100% O2 ready to 2400PSI and 80% O2 ready to 3400 PSI whereas D6 advertises excursion as 40% only. Not sure if the differences in advertising are just liability protections or represent different rings and lubricants used in manufacturing.

 

[davehicks]

The ScubaPro Mk11 is tiny and may work well but i its not fully sealed. The Apeks DS4 is actually quite easy to get service kits online. The SP Mk17 is environmentally sealed but is heavier than a Mk11.​

 

[lexvil]

If you want light weight and 1/2 sealed diaphragm hunt down a MK 11T

 

[-JD-]

@-JD- I recently sat through a class conducted by a well known regulator guru here on SB. One regulator he used in teaching of theory was a Sherwood SR2. It is a dry sealed flow thru piston! I'm really now interested in them, and would likely be on the top of my list if I was to be getting any new gear.... I still may get one.....

Keeping in mind that Sherwood was the developer and producer of top line SCUBA regulators for themselves and others early on and are a simply pinnacle regulator designer/manufacturer outside SCUBA, I'm really interested...

No, not a diaphragm, and I don't want to irritate you for suggesting something outside your listed criteria, but maybe take a look..... see if it checks any boxes in a way you are seeking.

Also - Your HOG rigs will continue to meet your needs.... the wife and daughter have d1 sets for our home cold waters.

I am a die hard ScubaPro junkie (not their high-end pistons) and they are my preference, but do not meet your requirement of OTC kits. They can be obtained, just not in conventional manner... I'd say there is actually more information out there for SP than many others, all however "unsanctioned"....

YMMV

Not irritated at all!
I know that guru - I'm diving one of his D400s - great for a primary (Octo - I want in-dive adjustable and my HOGs do just fine.)
I was thinking Sealed Diaphragm because what I've heard of Sealed Piston regs - i.e. sealing with a tub of Christo/Tribo-Lube ... no thanks.
The Sherwood looks nice, but is still a turret reg - basically the same size and likely weight as my HOG D3.

I have none-nada-0 complaints about my HOG regs, they have and will probably continue to be great for me.

Flying to dive, with all of my own gear, is presenting new challenges and "opportunities."

For the right reg, I am happy to go "unsanctioned" - I'm sure the guru's class would prepare me well. I'd prefer not to have to go nuts with hunting down parts. (See grouped SP commentary below)

One difference between HOG D2 and D6 Excursion is O2 rating. May not make a difference for your application but HOG advertises D2 as 100% O2 ready to 2400PSI and 80% O2 ready to 3400 PSI whereas D6 advertises excursion as 40% only. Not sure if the differences in advertising are just liability protections or represent different rings and lubricants used in manufacturing.

I agree it is probably a liability issue, but between the two my preference would be for the HOG any way, if just for consistency with my D1 & D3 regs. Since it is for travel rec diving use it isn't an issue anyway. I'll still have my existing HOGs if start to need 50-80% deco regs.

The Deep6 signature series isn't all that lightweight
I have never handled a ScubaPro Mk11 or Mk17 but would that fit the bill?

Deep 6 Signature is essentially the same as my HOG D3s - no advantage for size/weight - I'm looking at their "Scribble" now "Excursion" turretless.
(See grouped SP commentary below)

The ScubaPro Mk11 is tiny and may work well but i its not fully sealed. The Apeks DS4 is actually quite easy to get service kits online. The SP Mk17 is environmentally sealed but is heavier than a Mk11.​

DS4 is equivalent to the D2/Excursion for twice the price. I can drive 10 minutes and get aftermarket kits if they are in stock.

If you want light weight and 1/2 sealed diaphragm hunt down a MK 11T

Sure, now you tell me ... SOLD!!! - Scubapro MK11T first stage titanium


SP Commentary:

MK17 weighs about the same as the HOG D2 (1.4lbs in DIN) with similar routing - probably a wash before minuses for cost & parts availability

General note: SP's yokes are insanely heavy - they add 1/2 lb. to the weight compared to DIN!

Now the MK11 the weight (1.1lb in DIN) and parallel LP ports are attractive. Talk to me about how sealed it is ... A week of diving worth no rinsing and no worries?

and @lexvil how much weight does the T version save???

 

[lexvil]

I no longer have an 11T and don’t recall the weight, here is a 20ul, sealed and full of silicone with the yoke.

also a good travel weight, the 11T was about 1lb with yoke. The 11 is only open, like any unsealed diaphragm, around the main spring and gunk won’t get in and mess with any moving parts. Unsealed diaphragms can be had from many makers and some are verysmall and light weight.