Advice on lift capacity for BP&W

[walkonmars]

I am 5'9" and 148lbs. I have DSS stainless plate and the DSS LCD 30 pound lift wing.
I will wear 10 pounds of weight for a drysuit dive using a 117 cu ft steel tank, and carrying a 30 cu ft pony also strapped to my back. My setup is atypical by having the pony on my back. Without it I have run as low as 6 pounds of lead on my belt when I was wetsuit diving. According to my calculations when I was purchasing four years ago, I could have used a 25 pound lift bladder but went with a 30 because I was planning on (and have transitioned to) diving with a drysuit and more lead on the belt. I like my DSS supply a lot but I know there are other options out there. I recommend a simple metal plate and straps without pads since you are a NorCal diver in a thick wetsuit or drysuit. Pads won't matter wearing a thick suit and in the tropics you can simply wear a neoprene vest to protect straps from scuffing skin. I agree with not going over capacity. I gained a lot in simplicity and reduction of "clutter" feel by going from jacket style BC to a plate and wing but likely would have been disappointed if I purchased a wing with 35 to 40 lbs of lift. If you don't anticipate diving doubles, then just get what you need for a single tank set up. Others may disagree, but I feel you will unlikely ever dive the same bladder for doubles as you would singles. Buy the bladder and lift you need for your primary diving set-up now. The bladder cost will be a small part of a doubles set-up later, anyway.

 

[swimlikethefish]

30 is really pushing it. I used to dive the same setup as you. I am also of similar size and weight. I went from a knighthawk to a bp/w. At first I ran a 30 lbs wing. With a semi dry suit I needed exactly 20 lbs to sink with a steel 100. With weighted sta and all I only had to carry 4lbs of lead. While nice, here is your warning. Suit compression is not a joke. While in saltwater it was suitable, in freshwater it was not even close. I jumped in a quarry and had to shoot a bag and pull myself up. I sold that 30 and bought a 40lb wing. That gave me the lift I needed. I also bit the bullet and bought a drysuit. Now I no longer have lift issues. The true difference between a 30 and 40 is so negligible that you won't be able to tell. I would say 34 to 36 would be the minimum you should buy.

Now if you switch to a drysuit, you could get away with a lighter wing if you use the suit for buoyancy. A drysuit can be expensive, but there are deals to be had. Search eBay weekly. I have picked up 2 really nice ones over the years for less than $500.

Good luck, dive safe.

 

[tbone1004]

@Abhijit Roy while @ams511 is correct, you aren't going to really puncture one of the DSS wings unless you really try to and I think Tobin said he's only had a handful of wings come back in the last decade or so with his current bladder design.

 

[tbone1004]

Thank you for such detailed explanation. makes a lot of sense. As I also dive a lot outside US, repair is also a consideration, which I haven't thought before. Based on all the suggestions, now I am between HOG & OMS IQ. Both provide 32lb lift, comparable price point. I am in the BP&W rabbit hole..LOL

with OMS's current issues, I would avoid them like the plague, HOG is fine, but not where I would first go.

@OWIC647 is on the board as well and has come out with a really slick bpw package that has a high quality wing as well.
Store | Vintage Double Hose

 

[johndiver999]

30 is really pushing it. I used to dive the same setup as you. I am also of similar size and weight. I went from a knighthawk to a bp/w. At first I ran a 30 lbs wing. With a semi dry suit I needed exactly 20 lbs to sink with a steel 100. With weighted sta and all I only had to carry 4lbs of lead. While nice, here is your warning. Suit compression is not a joke. While in saltwater it was suitable, in freshwater it was not even close. I jumped in a quarry and had to shoot a bag and pull myself up. I sold that 30 and bought a 40lb wing. That gave me the lift I needed. I also bit the bullet and bought a drysuit. Now I no longer have lift issues. The true difference between a 30 and 40 is so negligible that you won't be able to tell. I would say 34 to 36 would be the minimum you should buy.

Now if you switch to a drysuit, you could get away with a lighter wing if you use the suit for buoyancy. A drysuit can be expensive, but there are deals to be had. Search eBay weekly. I have picked up 2 really nice ones over the years for less than $500.

Good luck, dive safe.

freshwater should not require more lift (assuming you properly adjust your ballast when transitioning from the sea), but the point about 7 mm suit compression is very important and spot on.

The wing size a dry suit diver or someone in a thinner wetsuit uses are not necessarily applicable.

 

[Marie13]

I’ve got a 40lb wing on my Halcyon, but that’s only because I won it. Would have preferred a 30lb wing. But I’m diving cold(er) water with steel tanks, so it works.

 

[tbone1004]

freshwater should not require more lift (assuming you properly adjust your ballast when transitioning from the sea), but the point about 7 mm suit compression is very important and spot on.

The wing size a dry suit diver or someone in a thinner wetsuit uses are not necessarily applicable.

@swimlikethefish he is correct. Displacement is displacement regardless of what medium. The wing has more "pounds" of lift in salt water than it does in fresh water because the mass of the water is larger. Wetsuit compression is a function of a change in total displacement and if your wing can compensate for that displacement in one salinity level, it can in the other

 

[johndiver999]

That is more complicated way to look at it and I’m not sure I understand the logic.

If you needed x lbs of lead in the salt water then you need less than x in freshwater. If you forget and put on your ocean belt in a quarry ( with x lbs) you can be assured that you are now overweighted and will need more air in the bc to compensate.

 

[tbone1004]

That is more complicated way to look at it and I’m not sure I understand the logic.

If you needed x lbs of lead in the salt water then you need less than x in freshwater. If you forget and put on your ocean belt in a quarry ( with x lbs) you can be assured that you are now overweighted and will need more air in the bc to compensate.

the logic is the science behind how it works and is the simplest way of explaining it.

If you don't adjust your weight belt, then that is you choosing to dive overweighted and has nothing to do with the wings ability to compensate for suit compression. It is still compensating for the suit compression with no problems, but you have chosen to carry more lead than necessary which is an entirely different discussion vs. a wings ability to compensate in salt vs. fresh

 

[Abhijit Roy]

with OMS's current issues, I would avoid them like the plague, HOG is fine, but not where I would first go.

@OWIC647 is on the board as well and has come out with a really slick bpw package that has a high quality wing as well.
Store | Vintage Double Hose

Thanks for letting me know. Just curious, whats going on with OMS? I did look at Vintage double website, pretty nice. I think smaller businesses are awesome and sometimes are way more innovative.But may be noob question, in case of repair or servicing for future, will the bigger brands be more preferable?