Advanced or fundies?

[joe rock]

I asked this a year or so ago but there's no mention in this thread so I'll ask again. How flexible/inflexible is the equipment requirement. I've been told by the good people on this board that it's not just the skills emphsis, but a total philosophy and the equipment configuration is part of the philosophy. I dive doubles w/backplate and wing but my harness is "DIR".

 

[M_Bipartitus]

I get the impression that UTD is a little less tyrannical than GUE, but I don't really know. It may be the instructor more than the agency. It is best, however, to stick closely to the requirements as not doing so undermines the basic idea of team consistency. For example, will you die in open water if your SPG has rubber around it? I think not, but why not start with the preferred equipment, then you will never have to worry about it.

 

[mikemill]

I asked this a year or so ago but there's no mention in this thread so I'll ask again. How flexible/inflexible is the equipment requirement. I've been told by the good people on this board that it's not just the skills emphsis, but a total philosophy and the equipment configuration is part of the philosophy. I dive doubles w/backplate and wing but my harness is "DIR".

I get the impression that UTD is a little less tyrannical than GUE, but I don't really know. It may be the instructor more than the agency. It is best, however, to stick closely to the requirements as not doing so undermines the basic idea of team consistency. For example, will you die in open water if your SPG has rubber around it? I think not, but why not start with the preferred equipment, then you will never have to worry about it.

For UTD the requirement for Essentials is long hose / bungeed 2nd and non-split fins.

I took it with a BP/W with adjustable harness, force fins, cobra 2, and no wrist mount depth gauge. We worked with the gear, talked about pros and cons, about why certain equipment was chosen, etc.


As for Advanced or fundies I'd say Essentials as I liked that it was designed with recreational diving in mind and wasn't a pass / fail course. It was a diver improvement course.

 

[Anti-Hero]

I get the impression that UTD is a little less tyrannical than GUE, but I don't really know. It may be the instructor more than the agency. It is best, however, to stick closely to the requirements as not doing so undermines the basic idea of team consistency. For example, will you die in open water if your SPG has rubber around it? I think not, but why not start with the preferred equipment, then you will never have to worry about it.

Tyrannical? That kind of hyperbole only grows interest in GUE.

GUE-F is nurturing, it's prescriptive, and it's thorough; It's also not for everyone. You will spend 5-6 days of the most intense dive training you've ever experienced, both academically and in-water. And that is just the beginning of the GUE curriculum.

Do lots of reading and make an educated decision if it's for you or not. If you do choose that route, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Gombessa]

I get the impression that UTD is a little less tyrannical than GUE, but I don't really know. It may be the instructor more than the agency.

I think this impression comes about because people here tend to compare the respective agencies' "intro" classes--Fundamentals and Essentials. But what gets lost is the idea that these two classes aren't an apples-to-apples comparison. Essentials was designed to be something like a half-step before Fundies, and used to be marketed as a "pre-Fundies" or Fundies prep class that was accessible to nearly anyone curious with the system but unable/unwilling to make the investment in gear, time or energy required to fully take advantage.

As such, UTD's Intro to Tech class, the closer equivalent of Fundies and a half-step above it, actually has more rigid equipment configurations than Fundies - ITT actually requires doubles and a stage cylinder (but apparently a can light is optional).

In the end, as you progress up the chain in both agencies, the equipment configurations become more "tyrannical," or standardized, for both. With GUE, your simply don't have the option of starting at a more "introductory" level as with UTD.

If you look at the new open water certification classes, you can make the argument that UTD is less strict, as the equipment requirements are closer to what Essentials requires whereas GUE's is closer to what Fundies requires. So it seems the equipment "floor" starts higher on the GUE side. But they even out quite rapidly.

 

[StreetDoctor]

I think you'll find most GUE instructors to be flexible in equipment requirements for fundamentals, your best bet is to email your proposed instructor and ask.

 

[rjack321]

I think this impression comes about because people here tend to compare the respective agencies' "intro" classes--Fundamentals and Essentials. But what gets lost is the idea that these two classes aren't an apples-to-apples comparison. Essentials was designed to be something like a half-step before Fundies, and used to be marketed as a "pre-Fundies" or Fundies prep class that was accessible to nearly anyone curious with the system but unable/unwilling to make the investment in gear, time or energy required to fully take advantage.

As such, UTD's Intro to Tech class, the closer equivalent of Fundies and a half-step above it, actually has more rigid equipment configurations than Fundies - ITT actually requires doubles and a stage cylinder (but apparently a can light is optional).

In the end, as you progress up the chain in both agencies, the equipment configurations become more "tyrannical," or standardized, for both. With GUE, your simply don't have the option of starting at a more "introductory" level as with UTD.

If you look at the new open water certification classes, you can make the argument that UTD is less strict, as the equipment requirements are closer to what Essentials requires whereas GUE's is closer to what Fundies requires. So it seems the equipment "floor" starts higher on the GUE side. But they even out quite rapidly.

Yes GUE-F tends to straddle Essentials (which is a pure recreational course intended for a beginning diver) and Intro to Tech which is well "ItT" and also requires a deco bottle.

Don't focus on the gear for either, they are practically identical in short order - just starting at slightly different places for divers (in all likelihood) starting in different places.

 

[M_Bipartitus]

Tyrannical? That kind of hyperbole only grows interest in GUE.

ok, poor choice of words.

After looking over the specifics of many of these course, I see how the programs are offest a little. Personally, I have been considering these courses and am leaning towards UTD Intro to Tech in the spring. I'm leaning twoards UTD mostly as there are no GUE instructors nearby.

To get back on topic, I agree with many above posts that the GUE or UTD courses are more for diver improvement and AOW is better for "experience" (as far as charters and resorts are concerned.) I took AOW a few years ago and, for me, it was interesting as I got to try dives that I otherwise would not have done such as DPV. That said I don't think AOW improved my diving.

 

[Blackwood]

AOW card my ass!!! It's a damn racket.

It may be a racket for shops/agencies, but boat captains as a rule don't make any money from certification (unless they're teaching on their boat, etc.).

Rather, I imagine it's a liability issue. If someone comes on with an AOW card, it's easier to point the finger when they get hurt.