Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[Searcaigh]

I mean Dive Against Debris Diver and Shark Conservation Diver. Come On!!!!

Nobody is forcing you to do these courses, so why are you so concerned. They were probably written by instructors looking to expand their teaching abilities and make a living.

Just get out there and dive. Once you've logged more than 24 dives and have a bit more experience in various conditions then perhaps you can involve yourself with more pertinent courses that suit your diving.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

The costs of silly certifications are a financial barrier to folks wanting to enter the sport

I disagree. Entry level classes, ie. Open Water, are not silly certifications.

Once a diver is certified they can decide what is silly to them and what is not and none of the silly classes like Zombie Apocalypse are barriers to anything.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

Nobody is forcing you to do these courses, so why are you so concerned. They were probably written by instructors looking to expand their teaching abilities and make a living.

Just get out there and dive. Once you've logged more than 24 dives and have a bit more experience in various conditions then perhaps you can involve yourself with more pertinent courses that suit your diving.

Not really concerned, more amused. I fully understand the business end and that these courses were put in as money makers. I like to make money. Though I jest, the mermaid course is a good way to get young folks interested in diving. But dive Against Debris? Do I need a cert to tell me to come out of the water with drysuit pocket full of trash every dive? Of course I didn't pay for that one. He threw it in for free so he could sell me a "Master Diver" card. Luckily, I didn't bite and continued to move towards my goal.

My main problem with the whole process is I walked into the dive store and said I want to learn to cave dive so I can explore cenotes and dude tried to railroad me down another path instead of helping me achieve my goal and then followed up with poor/no training that I paid for. And I see it time and time again from different shops. Day 1 of pool, he was trying to sell me the IDC course. I'm like dude, I've never even stepped in the water with SCUBA gear and you want me to be an instructor? Then when a local SDI instructor started to take me diving PADI dude freaked out, scared he was going lose a revenue stream. I went in and paid for my AOW and instead of scheduling dives he said, "I know you did the dives, I'll just give you the card." And he was right. I did way more diving and learned more from my new buddy than he ever could have taught me. But still, I paid for training and didn't get the training. It's a continual joke to this day between me and my SDI buddy, SDI buddy trained me and PADI dude collected the money. I don't know where I would be as a diver if he hadn't taken me under his wing.

I 'm doing TDI Intro to Cave in a couple weeks. The requirements for the cert are 2 days of training and 4 dives. I scheduled seven days with my trainer because I want to be trained, not get a fancy wallet card.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I 'm doing TDI Intro to Cave in a couple weeks

Just curious .. are you using the TDI e-Learning for cave?

 

[Forbin's Descent]

I disagree. Entry level classes, ie. Open Water, are not silly certifications.

Once a diver is certified they can decide what is silly to them and what is not and none of the silly classes like Zombie Apocalypse are barriers to anything.

I agree, entry level classes are not silly. Certifications given by private corporations with no oversight are.

Holy ****, Zombie Acopalyse is a real course? I thought it was hyperbole by @wetb4igetinthewater

 

[Forbin's Descent]

Just curious .. are you using the TDI e-Learning for cave?

No. We just did cavern with the book and doing Intro the same.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Zombie Acopalyse is a real course?

Its a real cert....not sure how much of a "course" it is.

 

[Belzelbub]

I agree, entry level classes are not silly. Certifications given by private corporations with no oversight are.

Agreed somewhat on the no oversight. There are standards that define the main courses, but oversight is often not done. In the industry I work, we have standards, and private corporations certify other companies in those standards. They do provide oversight, though with regular audits.

I don't really know the solution, as the audits I mentioned above are expensive. Someone has to pay that. Which would mean that certs would get more expensive. Ultimately, the best method today is to find a good instructor. That's harder than it sounds as new divers don't know the difference between a good instructor and a poor one.

Holy ****, Zombie Acopalyse is a real course? I thought it was hyperbole by @wetb4igetinthewater

Yeah, it's real. There are certainly some bizarre courses out there. Most of the bizarre ones you won't find on the agency's list. They are just a course that an instructor came up with and submitted for approval. As long as it meets the agency's standards, then they'll approve.

I don't really have a problem with them. As long as they aren't being billed as something that must be taken, then I don't see an issue. If people want to take the course, then no problem. No one is forcing them. Diving is supposed to be fun, and Zombie Apocalypse Diving sounds like fun. And hey, maybe a student will get something out of it. No harm.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

Agreed somewhat on the no oversight. There are standards that define the main courses, but oversight is often not done. In the industry I work, we have standards, and private corporations certify other companies in those standards. They do provide oversight, though with regular audits.

I don't really know the solution, as the audits I mentioned above are expensive. Someone has to pay that. Which would mean that certs would get more expensive. Ultimately, the best method today is to find a good instructor. That's harder than it sounds as new divers don't know the difference between a good instructor and a poor one.

Yeah, it's real. There are certainly some bizarre courses out there. Most of the bizarre ones you won't find on the agency's list. They are just a course that an instructor came up with and submitted for approval. As long as it meets the agency's standards, then they'll approve.

I work in food manufacturing. We are overseen by the FDA of course and my old company was SQF (Safe Quality Food) certified which is a private certification that's above and beyond so understand how all that works. A lot of our large private label customers required the SQF.

I am also a whitewater kayaker and compare to that industry. While there are companies and individuals that train and courses that are American Canoe Association courses, it's just there if you want it. No gatekeeping. I didn't need a certification to paddle class V whitewater and have certainly been in much more dangerous situations and rescues in WW than I have in my diving career so far. I am also SWR experienced (but not certified) and was WFR (wilderness first responder) certified but let it expire. It has to be renewed every so many years. I've never done Rescue Diver for that reason. I read the PADI rescue manual and between SWR and WFR I had it pretty much covered except for a few diving specifics.

Yep, It's the beginning diver thing. We just don't know at that time in our diving journey. My local shop is PADI 5 star which sounds impressive to the new diver but all that means is he's done x amount of certifications. Has nothing to do with the quality. I learned mighty quick this was not how I wanted to get cave trained. This is life or death and I feel way better the way I learned to paddle WW from just paddling with people better than me than how my initial SCUBA training went with a "certified" agency.

We don't rise to the occasion, we fall to our training.

 

[boulderjohn]

you know they have a mermaid course right?

Mermaid | PADI

Enroll in a PADI Mermaid course and expand your understanding with additional routine, exhibition and problem-handling skills.

www.padi.com

PADI was a follower on this one. Both NAUI and SSI had the course before they did.