Adv Nitrox/Deco Procedures

[Tienuts]

Exactly! We do skills training in 15' to 30' where the buoyancy swing is the most and mistakes in buoyancy are exaggerated in order to emphasize the subtle feedback you can get in buoyancy change via your ears, etc. What is the point of doing any of these drills at depth? If you can do them in 15'-30', you should be able to do them deeper where buoyancy and trim issues are actually easier to resolve. I suppose you could argue that their is a certain amount of "realism" associated with practicing emergency drills at 150' or 200'......but then even soldiers don't practice getting shot with real bullets in order to simulate battlefield conditions...........

Who said anything about doing the skills at depth? I am responding to the posters who claim their idea of a good deco class is to have someone hold their hand while they run through some stops on a slate, instead of drilling skills and running through failure scenarios.

Diver's don't die when one thing goes wrong - they die when multiple things start happening at once, and usually the first thing wrong, is an improper mind set or attitude prior to the start the dive. As unlikely as having 2 lost gasses, a lost mask, lost light and lost buddy may be, it is a scenario which makes you think.

 

[wedivebc]

......but then even soldiers don't practice getting shot with real bullets in order to simulate battlefield conditions...........

Uuuhm, yes they do actually.

 

[Bismark]

Uuuhm, yes they do actually.

You and I were both in the military. Do you know anyone who was "shot" with real bullets for practice? I am talking the real deal here, not simulations or paint balls or any thing like that. Good ol' 7.62 at around 2800 fps...... I also don't mean if you are hiding in a tank..... Not regular training for any military that I am aware but enlighten me if I am just wrong.......

 

[Bismark]

Who said anything about doing the skills at depth?
.

You might want to review Pir8's posts above. He mentions 200' and then states that he miss-typed and meant 150' At least that's the way I read them anyway. Doesn't sound like you and I are in disagreement really.

 

[do it easy]

How many things can realistically go wrong on a dive?

OOA
lost gas/manifold failure
lost buddy
lost light/low vis
lost mask
lost mind
lost fin
lost line/lost boat
lost buoyancy
panic and hysteria
hypoxia/hyperoxia
hypercapnia
carbon monoxide/bad gas/accidental drysuit inflation
thermal issues/compromised exposure protection
missed deco
squeeze/ezeeuqs
forgot if the oven is off at home
entanglement
scooter failure
iron deficiency and low intestinal fortitude
dead diver/mostly dead diver

There are all procedures and protocols to deal with these things. You can practice them two or three at a time, but in the end, you should have a plan for these contingencies. At some point you have to draw the line about how many contingencies to anticipate- maybe it's one major failure, maybe it's eight, but beyond that you're SOL. The more contingencies you can handle simultaneously, the better prepared you will be, but at some point, it does cross the boundary into the ridiculous zone... A fire extinguisher in the front seat comes to mind...

That being said, I think that preparing for contingencies should not be confused with task loading and thinking under pressure. One is not a substitute for the other.

 

[pir8]

You might want to review Pir8's posts above. He mentions 200' and then states that he miss-typed and meant 150' At least that's the way I read them anyway. Doesn't sound like you and I are in disagreement really.

Actually I said 200 cause I was thinking of my last class for Trimix, then later realized we were talking about Deco proceedures so lowered it.

 

[Bismark]

Actually I said 200 cause I was thinking of my last class for Trimix, then later realized we were talking about Deco proceedures so lowered it.

Out of curiosity, what type of drills and skills do you practice at 200' or 150' for that matter? What would be the rationale of doing drills of some kind at 150'? What do you drill there that you cannot practice more safely in shallower depths? Further, what agency were you trained with that advocates this? I am truly curious.

 

[Kern]

I did TDI adv. nitrox/deco proc. My instructor didn't believe in the constant harassment/stressing methodology either. It all seemed to work out though.

On my first real deco dive of the course, while shooting the bag at 12mts I had an "O" ring extrude on the swivel of my primary 2nd stage. I knew I had to maintain position in the water column, shut down the right post, maintain position in the water column, finish filling the bag via the inflator hose, stay on schedule so ascend to 9mts, maintain position in the water column, shot the bag, maintain position in the water column, stow the long hose, maintain position in the water column, finish deco sched. & leave the water.

PS. I'm ex RAR & I vividly remember lying on my guts during training while 7.62 rounds broke the sound barrier just over head followed by the bang of the shot being fired. With the sergeant saying, "so you see boy's, if you only hear the bang, they're not firing at you so you race towards the sound & engage the enemy. If however you hear the crake of the bullet breaking the sound barrier followed by the bang of the propellant going off, they're shooting at you & it's best to duck". Of course grunts are all mad.

 

[Bismark]

I did TDI adv. nitrox/deco proc. My instructor didn't believe in the constant harassment/stressing methodology either. It all seemed to work out though.

On my first real deco dive of the course, while shooting the bag at 12mts I had an "O" ring extrude on the swivel of my primary 2nd stage. I knew I had to maintain position in the water column, shut down the right post, maintain position in the water column, finish filling the bag via the inflator hose, stay on schedule so ascend to 9mts, maintain position in the water column, shot the bag, maintain position in the water column, stow the long hose, maintain position in the water column, finish deco sched. & leave the water.

PS. I'm ex RAR & I vividly remember lying on my guts during training while 7.62 rounds broke the sound barrier just over head followed by the bang of the shot being fired. With the sergeant saying, "so you see boy's, if you only hear the bang, they're not firing at you so you race towards the sound & engage the enemy. If however you hear the crake of the bullet breaking the sound barrier followed by the bang of the propellant going off, they're shooting at you & it's best to duck". Of course grunts are all mad.

No doubt made for some exciting training. I posit that there is a substantial difference between being fired over and being shot...........one of which you are no doubt glad exists...... I was looking at some 5.56 rounds the other day beside some of the 7.62 stuff........they just don't make 'em like they used ta'.

 

[pir8]

Out of curiosity, what type of drills and skills do you practice at 200' or 150' for that matter? What would be the rationale of doing drills of some kind at 150'? What do you drill there that you cannot practice more safely in shallower depths? Further, what agency were you trained with that advocates this? I am truly curious.

TDI, Basic valve drills and shooting bags, at least its safer than someone stealing your gas or ripping your mask off.