Adv Nitrox/Deco Procedures

[Bismark]

I believe in practice and drill, not creating problems that aren't there.

Thats great if your problem or emergency is one you have practised for or drilled for, but what happens when it is not? My view is that I would much rather create some IA's (immediate actions) based on statistical probability to start solving the problem and then develop the diver's ability to think by "oppotunistically facilitated harassment" (good one Dave, I am going to steal that one) to develop a thinking diver who will insert their brain into the cause and effect loop. Drills are great as long as they are part of this process. It is when they are done for the act of doing them with no integration with reality that they become detrimental and encourage rote responses to dynamic problems.

 

[pir8]

You're taking a chance on creating a situation that wasn't there to begin with. Theres no way that you can prepaare for everything and everything so just do the best you can. But don't cause things that weren't there to begin with, especially at 200ft.

 

[wedivebc]

You're taking a chance on creating a situation that wasn't there to begin with. Theres no way that you can prepare for everything and everything so just do the best you can. But don't cause things that weren't there to begin with, especially at 200ft.

I think you get out of training what you are willing to put into it. I feel every course you take should push the comfort boundaries. If you spend your entire training time just cruising along looking at fish 'n weeds then that is what you will excell at. If you are pushed to limits and challenged by an instructor you may feel you have actually accomplished something. I have a student right now who is facing that same dillema. He wants the training but his comfort envelope is quite easy to reach.

 

[pir8]

I guess we'll just have to disagree on our methods.

 

[Bismark]

You're taking a chance on creating a situation that wasn't there to begin with. Theres no way that you can prepaare for everything and everything so just do the best you can. But don't cause things that weren't there to begin with, especially at 200ft.

I thought the whole idea of training to react to unforeseen emergencies was about creating the capacity to react to unforeseen emergencies? I guess your and my version of "do the best you can" is substantially different. And BTW, who said anything about doing critical skills and failure training at 200' ? That sounds a little on the retarded side. Of course that is only my own opinion.....

 

[pir8]

Sorry typed wrong number, how about 150ft? I still don't think its appropriate there either.

 

[Tienuts]

You train skills on shallow dives, not in 200, or 150 feet of water. We do our skills dives in 70 feet or less, mostly in 40 feet or less.

The idea behind lost mask and lost deco, or whatever the scenario might be is to see how you can think, to work your way out of a problem when it arises. Are these scenarios likely? Probably not but that's not the point.

Some, when faced with a seemingly impossible task will panic and flee, while others will calmly and rationally figure out the solution and live. It's the difference between being the subject of a discussion thread in the memorial section, or the lessons learned section and the first step is the proper attitude.

 

[Bismark]

You train skills on shallow dives, not in 200, or 150 feet of water. We do our skills dives in 70 feet or less, mostly in 40 feet or less.

The idea behind lost mask and lost deco, or whatever the scenario might be is to see how you can think, to work your way out of a problem when it arises. Are these scenarios likely? Probably not but that's not the point.

Some, when faced with a seemingly impossible task will panic and flee, while others will calmly and rationally figure out the solution and live. It's the difference between being the subject of a discussion thread in the memorial section, or the lessons learned section and the first step is the proper attitude.

Exactly! We do skills training in 15' to 30' where the buoyancy swing is the most and mistakes in buoyancy are exaggerated in order to emphasize the subtle feedback you can get in buoyancy change via your ears, etc. What is the point of doing any of these drills at depth? If you can do them in 15'-30', you should be able to do them deeper where buoyancy and trim issues are actually easier to resolve. I suppose you could argue that their is a certain amount of "realism" associated with practicing emergency drills at 150' or 200'......but then even soldiers don't practice getting shot with real bullets in order to simulate battlefield conditions...........

 

[pir8]

What class is this Deco proceedures or Stress creation?

 

[Meng_Tze]

You're taking a chance on creating a situation that wasn't there to begin with. Theres no way that you can prepaare for everything and everything so just do the best you can. But don't cause things that weren't there to begin with, especially at 200ft.

You can not prepare for everything, that is true. But by doing drills (regardless of depth) you do prepare the mind to deal with situations. I think that while doing drills is good, the underlying 'address the issues in logical order' mental preparedness is the jewel here. That is why in certain classes/agencies they keep throwing problem upon problem, to push mental strength and prevent panicking at the smallest problem.

'Just doing the best you can' is fine if your brain can handle that situation. If it can not, in this sport it very quickly can mean pain if not death