Adderall and diving

[flw]

Adderall is not a psychotropic or psychoactive drug. It is an amphetamine based drug that was, originally prescribed for weight loss.. It is amphetamine and dextroamphetamine. For those of us not add, it is an upper. People with add are not wired the same way, and any stimulant actually acts in reverse to whatever degree and type strength they take. Please see the info below:

"Amphetamine Mixed Salts
Brand Name: Adderall


Warnings and Precautions
Amphetamines have a high potential for abuse. Administration of amphetamines for prolonged periods may lead to drug dependence. There is a danger of obtaining amphetamines for non-therapeutic use or distribution to others."

There are also varied levels of add or adhd.
And not all doctors can prescribe this medication. They require extensive testing, and monitoring. If your friend takes adderall, she has been under long-term doctor care to maintain the lowest safe treatment levels. Anyone who has add or lives with people who do, know this is not something that should inhibit activities.

I would trust my other child or a family member to dive with my son. Adderall does not impair him in any way. Quite to the contrary. But, it also has to do with how much add he is. It can be more or less severe or mild from person to person. And, by the way, my son is now a 13 year old tenth grader(he skipped two grades), attending an honor's academy. Not your typical kid anyway.

And as we began his dive career, we got our doctor to do his homework and clear my son as needed by the medical release form. Adderall is Nothing like zoloft or other drugs like that. Adderall cannot be compared to them. Have your friend clear it with her doctor. Don't take my advice or anyone else's here as written in stone. Go to the doctors and go see a doctor who specializes in dive releases. There are plenty.
Good luck.

With all due respect it is amphetamine based, a cns stimulant,that in adhd/add has a paradoxical effect as it stimulates the inhibitory complexes giving an increased attention span.
Some drugs behave differently under hyperbaric conditions,most have never been,or never will be tested in this way.
And yes,his concentration and/orbehaviour will improve on treatment. The list of potential side effects is not there just to fill out the paper- any side effects he getsmay well change underwater.
I don't know how it isprescribed in the states,but here it is only under a shared care arrangement between the consultant and gp-neither of whom know anything about diving
My youngest isnow 15 and on methylphenidate,I've had him under the pier in very shallow water,and he enjoyed it,but both he and I agree that learning to dive in open water just isn't a good idea.
Instead, we go fishing and walking together,and this summer we've been sea kayaking which he both loves and is very good at.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

With all due respect it is amphetamine based, a cns stimulant,that in adhd/add has a paradoxical effect as it stimulates the inhibitory complexes giving an increased attention span.
Some drugs behave differently under hyperbaric conditions,most have never been,or never will be tested in this way.
And yes,his concentration and/orbehaviour will improve on treatment. The list of potential side effects is not there just to fill out the paper- any side effects he getsmay well change underwater.
I don't know how it isprescribed in the states,but here it is only under a shared care arrangement between the consultant and gp-neither of whom know anything about diving
My youngest isnow 15 and on methylphenidate,I've had him under the pier in very shallow water,and he enjoyed it,but both he and I agree that learning to dive in open water just isn't a good idea.
Instead, we go fishing and walking together,and this summer we've been sea kayaking which he both loves and is very good at.

You are right. This is a medical condition that is seen as taboo to discuss or shameful by many. It will never be seriously tested in the diving arena. My son is on Daytrana - a time release patch that is methylphinedate. He is on a low dosage, but it is needed.

Justin has been diving since he was a scuba ranger at 9 years old. He was on concerta then. Every person is different and some are ready at different times than others, certainly. I know some adults who are just not able to function in a scuba situation. You are right to be conservative and take your time. Justin is a real success story, but I don't know if he is the anomaly or the norm. I made him take the adult PADI course when he was 12 and he did it all on his own-no babysitting. Justin is now 13 and, at times, I think he's a windup toy. On a boat, he is completely different. His focus is amazing when he chooses. He is also an honor's student who skipped a grade and is is now 13 and in 10th grade AP courses at an honor's academy. I think he may be the anomaly. This is why anyone should go to their personal physician and make good well-considered choices. Mine may not fit for others. I can only tell you my story. Good luck to all.

 

[ianw2]

I don't know how it isprescribed in the states,but here it is only under a shared care arrangement between the consultant and gp-neither of whom know anything about diving

My son's psychiatrist prescirbes for him. Dr. Murphy is quite up on hyperbaric medicine and is an active free diver. We relied on his judgement, skill, knowledge, experience and long-term treatment of my son.

I think we can all agree that this is a diagnosis that REAL requires the input of an experienced physician and must be dealt with on an informed basis case by case.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

My son's psychiatrist prescirbes for him. Dr. Murphy is quite up on hyperbaric medicine and is an active free diver. We relied on his judgement, skill, knowledge, experience and long-term treatment of my son.

I think we can all agree that this is a diagnosis that REAL requires the input of an experienced physician and must be dealt with on an informed basis case by case.

Yes. In the states, a general physician will send you to a psychologist or psychiatrist for further testing after he has given a full physical. The patient goes through a wide range of testing for full diagnosis. Then medication is closely watched. My son's doctor's see him regularly and often.

I think a doctor is the key factor here. As I said before, we proceeded only after given approval from his doctor, who is also a diver. I knew possible risks and we decided to let him try. He was and is fine. That is not to say all would be. You are very right. This is a very individualized condition. No two people are affected in exactly the same way and outcomes are not set. Each should be taken on its own.

 

[DocVikingo]

You are right. This is a medical condition that is seen as seen as taboo to discuss or shameful by many.

Hi ZenDiver.3D,

ADHD is a formal, recognized medical condition that affects certain behaviors and psychological processes, just as are hyper and hypothyroidism, hyper and hypoglycemia, electrolyte imbalances, certain vitamin and mineral deficiencies, etc. Like these latter abnormalities, ADHD often can be attenuated or entirely controlled by appropriate drugs. With ADHD, stimulant medications typically are prescribed. These drugs also are used in treating brain-based neurological abnormalities like narcolepsy.

Neither ADHD, nor other disorders that appear in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR), the accepted diagnostic text in the field, are considered moral or character flaws, weaknesses, failings, defects or faults. Rather, they are a formally classifiable disorders that are treated with prescription medications by licensed professionals and are covered under standard health insurance.

As such, those who see ADHD "as taboo to discuss" or as "shameful," and I'm not convinced that there are all that "many" who actually have this perception, can only be described as having a gross misunderstanding, a lack of compassion, an innate cruel streak, or all three.

But, more importantly, tiptoeing around the fundamental nature of ADHD by attempting to characterize it something else than a malfunction of the brain, or by portraying the psychostimulant drugs used to treat it as anything other than psychoactive and psychotropic (see my posts #10 and #12 in this thread for which I can provide specific URLs if you desire), only contributes to and exacerbates the incorrect perception that it is something to be "embarrassed" about or "taboo" to discuss.

Regards,

DocVikingo

PS: The drug your son is taking, Daytrana, is methylphenidate, not methylphinedate.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Hi ZenDiver.3D,

ADHD is a formal, recognized medical condition that affects certain behaviors and psychological processes, just as are hyper and hypothyroidism, hyper and hypoglycemia, electrolyte imbalances, certain vitamin and mineral deficiencies, etc. Like these latter abnormalities, ADHD often can be attenuated or entirely controlled by appropriate drugs. With ADHD, stimulant medications typically are prescribed. These drugs also are used in treating brain-based neurological abnormalities like narcolepsy.

Neither ADHD, nor other disorders that appear in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR), the accepted diagnostic text in the field, are considered moral or character flaws, weaknesses, failings, defects or faults. Rather, they are a formally classifiable disorders that are treated with prescription medications by licensed professionals and are covered under standard health insurance.

As such, those who see ADHD "as taboo to discuss" or as "shameful," and I'm not convinced that there are all that "many" who actually have this perception, can only be described as having a gross misunderstanding, a lack of compassion, an innate cruel streak, or all three.

But, more importantly, tiptoeing around the fundamental nature of ADHD by attempting to characterize it something else than a malfunction of the brain, or by portraying the psychostimulant drugs used to treat it as anything other than psychoactive and psychotropic (see my posts #10 and #12 in this thread for which I can provide specific URLs if you desire), only contributes to and exacerbates the incorrect perception that it is something to be "embarrassed" about or "taboo" to discuss.

Regards,

DocVikingo

PS: The drug your son is taking, Daytrana, is methylphenidate, not methylphinedate.

While I absolutely agree that there certainly nothing wrong or shameful about this medical condition, try being the parent of a child diagnosed. Teachers will treat them differently, (being a teacher, I hear the team conferences about students and get the unvarnished opinions about kids on my teams who are identified as ADD or ADHD). I have no shame about my son's condition, yet I hear many parents who feel devastated that their child is ADD, and won't medicate and treat them because of the "Not my child...." attitude.
I certainly am not tiptoeing around anything, though many do. If I were, I certainly would not have announced my son's condition to the world in a public forum. I simply hope that others will see that ADD does not have to cripple them or their loved ones, and with proper medical help and advice, they may be able to enjoy this fantastic sport. Thanks for all of your input on this subject.

 

[fisherdvm]

Adderall is not a psychotropic or psychoactive drug. It is an amphetamine based drug.

As far as adverse reactions are concerned: emotional lability, nervousness, psyschosis, tics, and headache - this is enough for me to say that it is psychotrophic and psychoactive.

As far as the indication is concern - attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - it is psychotrophic.

Amphetamine as a class is a psychoactive drug - used by the military to enhance alertness and prevent somnolence. It is used recreationally because it is psychotropic.

I guess I am not sure where you are coming from? I have a nephew who has ADHD, he is off medicine, but is a certified diver. I have dove with him a few times, and not to speak ill of people who suffer from the disorder, I would be reluctant to say that I feel comfortable with him leading his own dive plan, or safely dive without careful supervision.

There is too much risk for legal action against physicians, that it is hard for me to even prescribe accutane for seemingly normal healthy young adults who takes any kind of psychotrophic medications, or have any psychiatric diagnosis. I feel for parents of children with such disorders - it is kind of like my son being cursed with peanut allergy. He is quite restricted in the places he can eat, where we can travel, and even on cruise ships - we can not trust the food served.

 

[fisherdvm]

The phrase “This drug may impair the ability to drive or operate machinery.” is probably the most repeated phrase on drug insert sheets ever. It is a catch all phrase designed to help with the defense against the “Twinkie” lawsuit more than anything.

I won’t apologize for the length of the post. This subject is, obviously, a very personal one for me. It is also a subject that is so misunderstood by so many.[/FONT][/COLOR]

I think it is easy to blame the doctors for not understanding the problems, or not willing to help patients with disorders that limits participation in sports like asthma or attention deficit.

But we do have to understand the price we pay for holding physicians accountable for every adverse event we suffer.

That is why even over the counter benzoid peroxide acne cream can not be used for pregnant woman. That is why we have parents suing the maker of Accutane for causing their son to commit murder (killed his dermatologist 4 years after taking 1 dose of Accutane). That is why we will find few physicians willing to clear individual for diving with any drug - psychotropic or not.

I'd say, before you waste money to see a dive specialist thinking you'd get clearance to dive - see if you can get an answer to a letter or a message to his office. If they said he/she would not clear anyones taking Adderal, then you did not waste your money. If 1000 divers dove safely with Adderal, and you are the 1001st diver who had an adverse reaction, how will the jury judge the doctor that cleared you for diving? Guilty - probably.

I saw a sign in front of an attorney's office this weekend, it read "In Jury We Trust!".

 

[ianw2]

I feel for parents of children with such disorders - it is kind of like my son being cursed with peanut allergy. He is quite restricted in the places he can eat, where we can travel, and even on cruise ships - we can not trust the food served.

No, respectfully, it is NOT "kind of like that".

There is no stigma attached to a peanut alergy. It IS a difficult condition under which to live, but there is no stigma.

A huge portion of the population equates ADD/ ADHD with metal deficiencies and being retarded. Even educated people who should know better (teachers, etc.) make the most stupid comments and often treat my son as though he is not capable of understanding language.

I understand your comments, but I'm not sure that you understand that there are vast differences in those of us who have this condition. There simply is no single "one-size-fits-all-solution" that so many seem to want to offer up.

Fortunately for us, we have an excellent physician who understands his art as well as his science and has taken the time to understand our son. Our good physician has availed himself of everything he could get his hands on to understand the condition in a hyperbaric setting.

Our son has his OW certification and has made a number of dives in and around Southern Californian waters.

I would not feel comfortable having lead, at this point, not because he has ADD/ADHD but, rather, because he has all of a dozen dives under his belt under controlled conditions.

I think it is easy to blame the doctors for not understanding the problems, or not willing to help patients with disorders that limits participation in sports like asthma or attention deficit.

I have no idea how this pertains to any of my previous posts on the topic. I have not blamed any doctors. Rather, I have issued high praise for the physician who tereats my son.

From my education and expereicen as a classically trainned chemist, i understand something about the nature of drug sheets and MSDS. If a reaction or side effect was noted at all during the clinical trials, it will be noted on the package insert.

I'd say, before you waste money to see a dive specialist thinking you'd get clearance to dive - see if you can get an answer to a letter or a message to his office.

If you re-read my posts, you'll find that my son is already certified to dive having received the approval and consent of his prescribing psychiatrist.

And with that, I think it's time to leave this thread well alone. Future readers would do well to filter the information in this thread through their own physician on a case by case basis.


Oh, and any attorney who puts his faith in any jury is asking for exactly what he or she gets. Jurys are as predicatble as a Pachinko ball.

 

[fisherdvm]

I did not say that there isn't a stigma attached to ADH. I am just saying, it is hard to live with a label or a disorder that sets you apart. When school groups peanut allergy kids to eat at the same table, when they can't share a birthday cake, can not go to summer camp (the cook can not guarantee safety of the food), can not join the military (MRE's are made in factory with peanut processing equipment) - they also get stigmatized. They get labeled. ADH in a sense, does not separate you from the group. Children are not labeled it. If the parent chose to share with the school administration and teacher - it is their choice. In the same way, having asthma stigmatizes you when it comes to diving also - and my son has that too. No one gains by saying one disorder is better to have than another. It is hard for children to grow up with labels. I am not speaking about your son, I am speaking about the OP whom you suggest should see a dive specialist - that might or might not increase the chance of their getting "medical clearance". I am glad your son is already certified.

I know a few people with ADH. I know one who is on disability at 18 for ADH. My nephew has ADH, and is an outstanding musician in his fourth year of college. My step-daughter has ADH and is in her fifth and final year of college. I've treated a set of twins when I was in the service who were juvenile delinquents and committed a grave crime (of rape) when they were 7. As in any disorder, there is a range of function and impairment. But I can not speak for a child psychiatrist who personally know an individual who can vouch for their safety in diving. The conjoint effort between the psychiatrist and a dive specialist can result in a diving clearance, understanding that neither physicians can or should be held liable if any injuries occurred.

I did not blame you. Simply your saying "do not use when operating machinery" is to avoid "twinkie" lawsuit. You are suggesting that doctors and pharmacists slap such label on drugs to avoid frivolous lawsuits. They are not frivolous, and I take such advisement with utmost regard. The medical profession can not tolerate a 1:100, a 1:1000, or a 1:10,000 risk. That is why there is no such thing as a safe drug when it comes to a recreational sport like scuba diving. Look at how closely regulated is Accutane, and when you see that the side effect is like less than 1:1000, does it surprise you the millions of dollars generated in lawsuits?

Still, diving is a risky sport, even for healthy individuals not on any drugs. I can not blame any physicians for flatly denying that opportunity for anyone to dive while taking any drugs, period.