ADD and diving

[desiredbard]

Amazing. So according to your rationale, the reason I carried my ADD from childhood to my adult life was because I didn't get beaten up enough? Before you start making such incoherent comments I would recommend you do some research first. You can start here:

http://www.chadd.org

No dont get me wrong.
First of all my remark was directed at the BS post stating that undiagnosed and untreated ADHD sufferers often end up as smokers drinkers:

IADHD sufferers typically self medicate... they tend to be smokers, drinkers, drug-users if they are left untreated.

Yeah sure, I must have had ADHD in that case.
On top of that my whole club smokes and drinks on an dive outing (even the non-smokers...so therefor all participating divers must have ADhD)

Now I am not saying that ADHD does not exsist.
I am saying that 80+% of so called ADHD sufferers ar just irritating annoying to much endulged little brats that should have been served with a couple of whacks in younger life.

If your kid starts ripping products from the shelv in the local supermarkt and does not listen if you tell him off...
you cannot give him a slap on the hand arse back of the head anymore....
No, the poor brat surely has ADHD and we need to understand the poor troubled mind....

F that I say and have done before ....
A kick up the hole as alternative medication does the trick:
My neighbours kid is staying; off car tires, out of gardens and of their walls and leaves the pets of in an area of at least 100 m in peace after I grabed him by his ear and marched him of to the local police station,
(this after the xth case of damage and the xth plea for understanding of her poor son of the good for nothing mother.

If she not be busy standing in the dole queue and playing bedroom golf with at least 3 different men a week, the boy would have no "ADHD".

Again for those who sufferADD there is medication, but i would not know if diving is a good idea. For the simulants and spoiled brats there is no reason why they could not dive.... again they get what they want.... the poor things

 

[DaytonaDave]

No dont get me wrong.
First of all my remark was directed at the BS post stating that undiagnosed and untreated ADHD sufferers often end up as smokers drinkers:

BS? No. Do some research... statistically speaking, ADHD sufferers DO seek out some form of medication.... nicotine is a stimulant. It is the most common source of medication for undiagnosed ADHD.

Now, that being said, I am not saying all smokers or drinkers are ADHD undiagnosed. I am saying that ADHD patients NEED medication even if they don't know they have it and will subconsciously seek it out.

Now, I agree that there are many brats out there... our society does not allow us as parents to do what we may believe is right. (I do spank, btw) As the kids get older, they are taught in our schools to report abuse.... so, a very common scenario is that a kid reports to the counselor that they are 'beaten' and voila, DCF is involved....

Right? No... Wrong? No.... because there are abused kids out there... but we as a society need to find the balance.

You said you have no kids? Just because you were 'straightened out' as a kid doesn't mean you know how to raise other children. When you have kids, we'll see how well you do....

And for the record, I usually get compliments for how my children behave in public.

 

[RV]

AHDH, in the years when I was a child, was treated with occasional applications of two of the trace elements . . . . wood and leather.

the K

dito

 

[DaytonaDave]

Here's a good reference, though you may want to drink a cup of coffee first....

http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/myths

 

[desiredbard]

BS? No. Do some research... statistically speaking, ADHD sufferers DO seek out some form of medication.... nicotine is a stimulant. It is the most common source of medication for undiagnosed ADHD.

Now, that being said, I am not saying all smokers or drinkers are ADHD undiagnosed. I am saying that ADHD patients NEED medication even if they don't know they have it and will subconsciously seek it out.

Now, I agree that there are many brats out there... our society does not allow us as parents to do what we may believe is right. (I do spank, btw) As the kids get older, they are taught in our schools to report abuse.... so, a very common scenario is that a kid reports to the counselor that they are 'beaten' and voila, DCF is involved....

Right? No... Wrong? No.... because there are abused kids out there... but we as a society need to find the balance.

You said you have no kids? Just because you were 'straightened out' as a kid doesn't mean you know how to raise other children. When you have kids, we'll see how well you do....

And for the record, I usually get compliments for how my children behave in public.

Of course your children are well behaved, and i do not say that only because you do spank. Its certain values you have and responsible parenting.
And again I do not want to talk ADHD down, but there is a problem with putting a name to it and making a hype of something..... and ADHD seems a hype to me at the moment.

That the human brain seeks or starts producing an antidote for a defecitis normal. Thats why humankind survived so long.

And that some smokers are unknown ADHD sufferes, so what, they selfmedicate and function normally. (Do not start about tar and nicotine cause any medication is bad for you if its foreign to the body). Now these people have suddenly ADHD however the function just as normal as the normal smoker, so whats the point.

The things I did when I was a kid, and yourself probably as well... now to calm them down every kid has ADHD, handy to calm them down and having an excuse if you do not have the time to parent.

I take cvare of my neighbours kids occasionally, young parents should have the time to get out alone sometimes and I seem to be really good with them. The longest I had them is for a long weekend....and yes they are a lot of work...hard work...and they need full atention cause God knows what they get up to otherwise. But to drug them up to make them more managable...theyre kids.... they are are a parents responsibility and not a psychiatrist or the chemical industry's.

Instead of spending money and counceling and chemicals, try taking a couple of hours of work matching that ammount and spend that with them.

Again this is not ment against genuine ADD sufferers or their parents.
Here in Europe ADHD is real hype, I dont know if its fall out from the Tsernobil dissaster, but I see it as an easy way to earn a living for some people in the "mental healthcare". And this cant do genuine ADD suffers no good either to be come the 13th in a dozen (misdiagnoses persons)

 

[TSandM]

Nice post, desiredbard.

I don't think there is any question that ADD/ADHD can be overdiagnosed, and that, whether children have a true psychiatric disorder or not, there is no replacement for attentive and responsible parenting.

That said, there certainly do appear to be children who are well out on the bell-shaped curve, and who do clearly benefit from medication. In the days before the diagnosis and treatment of ADD, it may well be that a lot of these children simply failed, dropped out, and never reached their potential.

In regards to the OP's question, I would think that, if the person in question could meet normal standards of attention and focus while medicated, it would be reasonable to dive while medicated. However, some ADD medications have short half-lives and require multiple daily doses, and care should be taken to ensure that the med in question would not wear off during the dive. A person whose behavior can't be brought into the norm with medication would be at risk diving, in my personal opinion.

I found managing the number of things I had to pay attention to while diving was a great challenge at the beginning, and I'm way on the OTHER end of the spectrum from ADD

 

[CBulla]

I was asked an interesting question today. I have a son who is ADHD and someone at work asked me if he could dive if he wanted, or does ADD or ADHD make it unsafe for a person to dive. I am just curious what the thoughts here might be ... I know my answer, and as far as the ADD side it is based on facts. I'm curious what knowledge and misconceptions will show up here, or perceptions about aspects I am not thinking about. Would ADD make a person a better, or worse buddy, or would it be something that has no overall effect?

Just a thought, but my wife works at a Womens Natural Health care center and they've had this issue a few times with women and their children. Granted some folks are just wired with energy to spare, the greatest amount of energy in children diagnosed with with these issues boils down to diet. High Fructose Corn Syrup and Red Dye #40 play a big role in a lot of what is bought at the store and the younger bodies are not able to digest of metabolize those items that well... those are just two of the dozens of additives that are found to be stimulating elements with ADD/ADHD. As far as a buddy - thats about focus. Create/teach focus and the rest will follow.

 

[RJP]

As far as a buddy - thats about focus. Create/teach focus and the rest will follow.

Right! No need for medical treatment!

If your kid has asthma, simply create/teach breathing and the rest will follow...

If your kid has has an infection, simply create/teach proper immune response and the rest will follow...

If your kid has poor eyesight, simply create/teach better vision and the rest will follow...

Heck, if your kid is a hemophiliac, simply create/teach clotting and the rest will follow...

Let us know how it goes!

 

[DaytonaDave]

If your kid has asthma, simply create/teach breathing and the rest will follow...

If your kid has has an infection, simply create/teach proper immune response and the rest will follow...

........

Thank you....

The bottom line... ADHD is a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE! It cannot be cured by just teaching focus... some patients improve with training if their imbalance is minimal. Just like any other disease/disorder there are different levels... for example, some diabetics are able to balance their blood glucose with diet, while others need insulin. Some ADHD patients are able to improve with physical focus training, while others need medication.

Would you ask a diabetic to stop taking insulin because they might possibly be misdiagnosed? Would you beat them so that they stop having seizures due to high blood glucose? No... as you should assume that if someone says they have ADHD, then they do. I will say again, the medication used on ADHD patients DOES NOT WORK on someone who does not have the disorder. It is a stimulant.... if someone takes a stimulant and it has a depressant effect... they are ADHD.

Now as far as the brats go, I've seen ADHD children be affected by their parents' behavior (my ex-wife and stepkids are a good example). The kids might be able to reign in their impulses only to be defeated by their parents' behavior.... this is where desiredbard's example is important... some cases are behavior of the parents aggravating ADHD or simply that it's a 'normal' kid whose parents reinforce bad behavior.

This is an excerpt from http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/myths#myth5 which I referenced earlier.

Myth # 5: Poor Parenting Causes AD/HD

This misconception may be the most difficult to dispel because parenting characteristics (i.e., being critical, commanding, negative) and poor management do exacerbate AD/HD

Now, I can understand that a bad parent might blame their children's behavior on something out of their control. No person wants to take the blame for their child being wild and unruly.... sure, blame it on ADHD, everyone knows it's a real disease... unfortunately, many people make that statement on their own accord (without the actual diagnosis) because they want something to blame. Therefore reducing the legitimacy of those who really are dealing with the disorder.

Please, if you're going to comment further read this site first. It's a good reference, and the comments/answers on it are from legitimate sources. It addresses several things that have been mentioned in other posts above.

Oh, Bard... I agree with you on the hype thing. But for different reasons. ADHD is a relatively new disorder, only being recognized and legitimized in the last few decades.... Just like any 'new' (meaning recognized) disorder, doctors are more aware of it and keeping their eye on their patients... and parents are trying to understand their children's behavior (as are the school teachers) nominating every child that seems fidgety for testing. Fortunately, a lot aren't ADHD, but the stigma remains.

Now, I need to go treat my writers cramp...........

This has turned out to be a good debate!

 

[Walt1957]

Instead of spending money and counceling and chemicals, try taking a couple of hours of work matching that ammount and spend that with them.

I've ignored a lot of the misinformed statements because they really were far off topic as far as diving, but this one gets to the heart of the issue. The assumption that ADHD is due to bad parenting, or lazy parenting. ADHD is definitely overdiagnosed in some areas, especially by non-psychiatrically trained pediatricians. There is no disputing that statement, even within the medical field. But that does not change the fact that millions of people in this country have this disorder. Do all of those with it need medication? Absolutely not. The distractibility factor can vary significantly. The ability to deal with it and adapt without medication varies significantly. Could some of the kids on medication do without? Absolutely. Many of the borderline cases could get by without medication, but only if parents and teachers knew enough about how to deal with the issues and took the time (assuming that they HAVE the time). And in those cases one could make a strong arguement that it is bad parenting to use meds when additional attention and alternative teaching methods would suffice. But it is also true that many of these kids would get a substandard education if they were not on medication, unless they were home schooled. Assuming the parents had the ability to properly teach them, no less the issue of earning a living vs. taking care of kids. Have you ever tried advocating for a disabled child in school? I have two of them, and believe me I know what I am speaking about here. There have been whole MONTHS where I spent more hours dealing with school issues than at earning a living, and that includes the ability to work odd hours. School districts consider it cheaper to fight parents than to set a "bad precident" of giving something a child might need that involves added costs. And it is a matter of even when you win, you usually lose. What incentives are there for a school district to follow the letter of the law? None. What is the consequence of violating the laws concerning disabled children? They are forced to start following the law, or if you really win big they might have to go back and fix what they failed to do in the first place. BIG INCENTIVE! IF the parents want to spend the time and money to prove that they weren't following the law. And that statement is not belittling the efforts of the many good teachers and administrators who do make the effort. But there are many roadblocks that keep even the well-intentioned teacher from doing what they know is right.

Sometimes being a good parent involves making tough decisions. And whether to medicate a child or not is not an easy one, even for well informed parents with good intentions. It generally comes down to deciding what is the lesser of evils, rather than choosing the obviously good path. And whatever choice is made, one has to consider the absolute necessity of a good eduction in today's society as a major factor. The options available to getting that for a child may vary, but the need for a good education has to be a primary concern in making this decision. How do I get my child the education that they will need to have a chance at success in life. And yes, I know, success can mean many different things to many different people. But a good education gives a child a better chance at it no matter how you define the word success.