I just read a post about an accident in Bonair. A link that was posted to a related chat site had several instructors and DM'S talking about the trouble they have keeping divers in line. I have also witnessed my share of left field antics by divers who know it all. Some resulted in injury, some near misses and others were allowed to slide for a while. Anyway I got thinking and thought I would ask the board a question. What would the safety record be like in recreational diving without all the instructors and DM's that directly or indirectly supervise so much of the diving that is conducted?
accident rate without supervisors
- Thread starter MikeFerrara
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My guess would be about triple what it is now, maybe more.
Tom
Tom
No doubt it would be significantly higher. How much higher is anyones guess.
I get grief on a regular basis from "experienced divers" when i remind them they should be doing such simple things as pre dive safety drills, etc.
In my experience "ego" is not in short supply in many divers.
I get grief on a regular basis from "experienced divers" when i remind them they should be doing such simple things as pre dive safety drills, etc.
In my experience "ego" is not in short supply in many divers.
I am sure there are a lot of accidents prevented by instructors /DM .These accident waiting to happen divers, do they go out and dive with some buddies on their own or do they just take a trip once in a while. I know there are exceptions but it seems to me that the divers go with some buddies often [year round ] seem to be fairly good divers .I know all the incidents I know of involved infrequent and inexperienced divers .
joens
joens
nickjb
Contributor
Just to play devils advocate...
How many of the current accidents are caused by divers being over reliant on divemasters and incapable of diving without a guide?
If dive guides where not available then maybe everyone would be trained to dive as an efficient buddy pair (or even a solo diver :boom:
)
How many of the current accidents are caused by divers being over reliant on divemasters and incapable of diving without a guide?
If dive guides where not available then maybe everyone would be trained to dive as an efficient buddy pair (or even a solo diver :boom:
)
The only time I really ever had an effect was when my buddy (Brian) and I were leading a group on an evening dive at gilboa. It was a group of three advanced students doing there second night dive making the total in the group 5 divers. During the dive (about 15 min. in), we crossed another group (of more than 2), and I all the sudden started counting 6. I looked at Brian, he too was confused....we confirmed that we were each counting 6 divers and continued on...no-one was low on air, no equipment problems, so we just assumed we missed someone at the beginning....bad leader.
Anyway, we surface as a group when the "6th" diver got down to 700 psi (the rest of us had 1000 to 1500), and it had been about another 20 minutes. The 6th diver then realizes he isn't with his original group....he's been down for a total of 54 minutes. Hmmm...we wonder, where could his group be....nope, they weren't in the water, nope they weren't on the floating dock looking for a lost diver.......they were packing their gear in the back of their trucks and getting ready to head home. We conveniently told them that we had a missing diver from their group, and that's when they decided to do a head count. They had been out of the water for apporx. 15 minutes. Brian and I have made it a point never to dive with that particular shop...ever (we never have, but I'll never forget the name of the shop/club)
Getting back to mike's question, I think the number of accidents would definetly rise, but who knows by how much...there are lots of "periodical" divers out there, and I believe that's where a good number of the incidents lie anyway....why do you think we have the DMs and Instructors to run trips and organize everything for the general diver.
Anyway, we surface as a group when the "6th" diver got down to 700 psi (the rest of us had 1000 to 1500), and it had been about another 20 minutes. The 6th diver then realizes he isn't with his original group....he's been down for a total of 54 minutes. Hmmm...we wonder, where could his group be....nope, they weren't in the water, nope they weren't on the floating dock looking for a lost diver.......they were packing their gear in the back of their trucks and getting ready to head home. We conveniently told them that we had a missing diver from their group, and that's when they decided to do a head count. They had been out of the water for apporx. 15 minutes. Brian and I have made it a point never to dive with that particular shop...ever (we never have, but I'll never forget the name of the shop/club)
Getting back to mike's question, I think the number of accidents would definetly rise, but who knows by how much...there are lots of "periodical" divers out there, and I believe that's where a good number of the incidents lie anyway....why do you think we have the DMs and Instructors to run trips and organize everything for the general diver.
chepar
Contributor
Pretty much all of the boat dive operators in Hawaii have DMs to guide the dives, like it or not. The exception being if you have a large enough group to charter the entire boat.
I suspect that there would be a lot more accidents/incidents if there were no DMs provided to guide the dives, Hawaii being one of those vacation destinations where you commonly see the "once or twice a year" diver.
I suspect that there would be a lot more accidents/incidents if there were no DMs provided to guide the dives, Hawaii being one of those vacation destinations where you commonly see the "once or twice a year" diver.
Scuba
Contributor
In regards to new recreational divers with a fresh C-card, or even a temp. while the cards comes in the mail, I can tell you from my personal experience, involving what I would characterize as typical training, not very good or very bad, that I did not feel confident in my ability to handle unforseen or emergency situations that might arise. Everyone in my class felt the same way and expressed their desire to do more dives under professional supervision, at the very least dives with someone much more experienced.
I think there is no escaping the fact that a person with five dives does not have the skills and confidence necessary to "safely" dive.
In addition, such person, who never progresses in dive training and knowledge, except for the experience gained from vacation dives, is very susceptible to a false sense of security.
I think there is no escaping the fact that a person with five dives does not have the skills and confidence necessary to "safely" dive.
In addition, such person, who never progresses in dive training and knowledge, except for the experience gained from vacation dives, is very susceptible to a false sense of security.
Don't agree. I did, and I know many others who did. That is not to say the typical novice diver, from the typical OW course, could not use quite a bit more practice and general dive knowledge, but I would not say they could not dive safely in the same conditions under which they were certified
I think your statement is too broad.
Phil
Unfortunately, I believe the statement:
"I think there is no escaping the fact that a person with five dives does not have the skills and confidence necessary to "safely" dive."
is true for the vast majority of divers. The really sad part is it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't take that much longer to teach an OW class the right way. Those few who do get a good class are ready to safely dive.
"I think there is no escaping the fact that a person with five dives does not have the skills and confidence necessary to "safely" dive."
is true for the vast majority of divers. The really sad part is it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't take that much longer to teach an OW class the right way. Those few who do get a good class are ready to safely dive.
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