Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[diverdoug1]

That's why its a no mount restriction. Molst of the explorers who were after the diver were some of the best there is at small stuff. When we say its sm only, that's what we mean.

Kevin, you seem pretty knowledgible, so I have no problem with taking your word about the dimensions of the restriction, but since this is the accident & incident thread, I think being critical in our accuracy is pretty important. I have diving sidemount for 23 years, and never seen anyone attempt an 8" gap. Although a denuded adult skull can fit through a 7" gap, even a very small adult sans gear could not pass thorugh the gap you describe. The posted video shows a thin young women using sidemount through the 14" restriction at Rock Bluff (and it is quite tight for her). The reason I bring this up is because if the gap being referenced in this discussion truly is 8" or less, I think there is very little possibilty that the missing diver could be beyond it. It seems to me that other explanations for the divers wherabouts should be considered.

 

[Sicily957]

I heard it from Ben's sister. She has been trying to keep everyone up here posted. I don't know who the diver was that went today. I heard he was really good and was pretty confident he would find Ben. She said they are going to start searching the spring areas tomorrow with dogs. I've never been to the Vortex so I don't know how big or small it is that's why I wondered if he was still in there.

 

[Cave Diver]

It seems to me that other explanations for the divers wherabouts should be considered.

Reminds me of the Sherlock Holmes quote: After eliminating the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Kevin, you seem pretty knowledgible, so I have no problem with taking your word about the dimensions of the restriction, but since this is the accident & incident thread, I think being critical in our accuracy is pretty important. I have diving sidemount for 23 years, and never seen anyone attempt an 8" gap. Although a denuded adult skull can fit through a 7" gap, even a very small adult sans gear could not pass thorugh the gap you describe. The posted video shows a thin young women using sidemount through the 14" restriction at Rock Bluff (and it is quite tight for her). The reason I bring this up is because if the gap being referenced in this discussion truly is 8" or less, I think there is very little possibilty that the missing diver could be beyond it. It seems to me that other explanations for the divers wherabouts should be considered.

Well, I can testify to it because several of my regular buddies dive that type of stuff. They regulary go through stuff that an 8 inch tank will not fit. One example is on Spring Lake, the cave is coffin. It has an 8 inch verticle fissure that's 6ft long. Now I'm not afraid to say that is more than I am comfy with at this point in time. Its not so much the going in, its knowing if something goes wrong I still have to come out of it. Several of my buddies don't mind twisting and wiggling their way through stuff, but they are damn good at it and been doing it a long time.

 

[Zen1300]

If location is identified, but recovery not possible, then what?

Do they close off a section?

Are there health risks introduced to other divers?

 

[Meister481]

My twitching starts on Mondays

OK, I'm jealous enough already. Planning to relo in the next few years. Then I'll tell you about diving weekdays because my wife is bringin home the bacon.

Kevin, you seem pretty knowledgible, so I have no problem with taking your word about the dimensions of the restriction, but since this is the accident & incident thread, I think being critical in our accuracy is pretty important. I have diving sidemount for 23 years, and never seen anyone attempt an 8" gap. Although a denuded adult skull can fit through a 7" gap, even a very small adult sans gear could not pass thorugh the gap you describe. The posted video shows a thin young women using sidemount through the 14" restriction at Rock Bluff (and it is quite tight for her). The reason I bring this up is because if the gap being referenced in this discussion truly is 8" or less, I think there is very little possibilty that the missing diver could be beyond it. It seems to me that other explanations for the divers wherabouts should be considered.

The owner of the dive shop I work at lost 50 bones betting a man couldn't fit through a hole the size of a standard concrete block.

Sounds like a job for a guy the size of Mike O. I think that guy could lay line in a 6" sewer pipe.

How large was the diver- Height, weight?

 

[Sicily957]

He was 6' and I'm not too sure about weight. I haven't seen him in awhile. I'd say anywhere from 160-200lbs. Ben wasn't a little guy. That's why I don't know how he could fit into some of these places.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

W
I queried whether the spring run has been checked in the event that the flow might have carried the diver out before teams began their search, but have no idea if that was done or not.

Supposedly, the run, dam, and intake pipe were checked...

Out of curiosity, what would be a typical dive profile and gas plan for this dive ? Sounds like it would require mixed gasses & decompression techniques in addition to proper overhead protocols.

Absolutely mixed gasses and decompression are best for this dive, along with overhead training.

If Jerry (who is much smaller than Ben) finds it difficult to maneuver around, then how did Ben (he's 50 lbs. heavier) supposedly get back there? Is it possible to squeeze in these caves and not be able to get back out?

Its very possible for a diver to get further in than he can back out from. We're much less streamlined moving backwards, and blind, and typically snag alot more... In the back of that cave, there are areas you can't turn around.

tn - Do you know much about Ben's diving? Are you able, or willing to fill in some of the blanks for us? Frequency, certification levels, etc.?

According to his dive log... 500+ dives(Gold Card with SSI) since 2007. Lots of OW specialties. Out of the 100ish pages in his current log, they were all shallow inshore gulf dives, beach dives, a couple dives at Morrison and about a dozen Vortex dives. No real tech classes, Intro to Tec, OW SM, no decompression classes, no overhead classes, etc.

He wasn't a CERTIFIED cave diver but I wouldn't call him inexperienced in cave diving. I'm fairly certain from what S told me last night that he had some formal training in cave dives but no certification.

According to his own logbook, thats not the case.

Sidemount and stage would have been a big help as well.

He had both.

 

[TommyB]

OK,

How large was the diver- Height, weight?

To put a face on Ben. So that every one knows who we are taking about.
I'm sure this may upset the loved ones and that is not my intent. There's a few pics on the net of Ben that I have located.

Now you can put a face to the incident.
(Hope this are the correct ones from another forum speaking of this incident) ..

 

[Sicily957]

Those pics look really old. Neither of those pics do him justice. I gave his height and weight.