Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[ianr33]

Gimme a break...I am gonna let my kid breath off my Spair Air bottle in a frickin swimming pool.

Hope he doesn't get scared,hold his breath and head for the surface.................

 

[Meister481]

Meister...geez...do I really gotta outline every detail of life to avoid critical analysis? LOL...On the "O" I was with an instructor was working with me for penetration dives. Honestly, I am not a fan.....

And who said anything about Bubblemakers? Gimme a break...I am gonna let my kid breath off my Spair Air bottle in a frickin swimming pool. None of us are driving instuctors, but we start teaching our kids to drive before they go to driver's ed and the state certifies them as license drivers.

I understand your situation and I'm just trying to point out that no matter if it was a major violation or small one, it's still breaking the rules.

This guy made bad choices that resulted in a fatality. You post about being AOW and that you are doing penetration dives, teaching your kids to dive, Etc. You can't have it both ways. If you want others to hold everyone accountable, as per your post, you have to do so yourself. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Don't take it personal, we've all had our moments. Your heart's in the right place, just be cautious when you go on a rant. Make sure your house is in order before you call others out, and be prepared for grief if it's not.

 

[Kicker1866]

M - I Guess I understand the point you are trying to make...and I defer to it because I have no interest in highjacking a very important thread. But again, to clarify....WAS working with instructor on penetration training...and if you wanna call a 7 yr old breathing my spair air breaking the rules, then I will stand guilty as charged on that one. Now....back to more important things.

 

[bamamedic]

Slight thread hijack...anyone can feel free to PM me instead of posting in an open forum in order to keep this thread on track...

So, how does this affect access beyond the gate at Vortex? I was planning on meeting a friend for some OW diving at Vortex next weekend, and figured I'd get there a day early to squeeze a cave dive or two in before he arrived. Nothing spectacular, just a nice, mellow dive a couple of hundred feet beyond the gate. Is access still allowed?

Is Vortex even open for OW diving right now?

 

[Cave Diver]

Slight thread hijack...anyone can feel free to PM me instead of posting in an open forum in order to keep this thread on track...

So, how does this affect access beyond the gate at Vortex? I was planning on meeting a friend for some OW diving at Vortex next weekend, and figured I'd get there a day early to squeeze a cave dive or two in before he arrived. Nothing spectacular, just a nice, mellow dive a couple of hundred feet beyond the gate. Is access still allowed?

Is Vortex even open for OW diving right now?

That question is pending in T2T also.

 

[diverbob]

I agree that it's not our responsibility, or the cave diving community's responsibility to protect the public from poor judgement.
I do wish, though that we would give a little more "why" to divers in open water class when they are told not to penetrate a cave, wreck or go deep without training. Honestly, until I read Shadow Divers and had some experience I really didn't appreciate the dangers of the sport. I could see a young or foolhardy person penetrating a cave just because PADI told him not to.
I've felt for a long time that "The Last Dive" and "Shadow Divers" should be mandatory OWC scare reading.

Check out the 10 minute video in the middle of this page. I was shown this in my OW class, and it stuck with me to this day.

DVDs -- Adventure and Educational Documentaries - Dive Gear Express

 

[ucfdiver]

Sidemount and stage would have been a big help as well.

Stage diving isn't rocket science. 1/2+200 and adjust backgas. They're searching a no mount lead, so I don't really know what good a SM course would have done here.

A diver diving this cave would need several more (Advanced Cave) classes to learn all the skills necessary to be prepared to dive to where he ended up.

hugh?

I'm unaware of any required courses beyond full cave. There's a few "workshops", but that's all I'm familiar with. At a certain point, the agency has to stop holding your hand, and you have to start making big boy decisions. If you don't realize that 170ft deep on air through a no mount restriction with clay isn't smart, a course just can't help you.

 

[ElleDrewinTN]

Organized recovery efforts are done. There is evidence in the cave that indicates the location of the body. There may be one more dive conducted there to attempt to visualize the body, but body extraction is not planned. It is too small to conduct a safe recovery.

The recovery divers are all wearing dry suits. The diver was in a wet suit. The recovery divers have been diving trimix. The diver was NOT diving trimix. While this dive could be conducted safely by a trained AND experienced cave diver, and IMO would be safer solo, this is a very advanced dive that requires advanced training and experience. The diver had neither. He had no formal training in overhead or decompression diving. Basically, this was an OW diver who went way beyond his training and experience levels and paid the highest price for this error in judgment. He was not given a key to the gate, but managed to get past it anyway. I know he had been warned about the dangers of cave diving and the need to get the appropriate training. He chose to ignore that warning.

Since all of this is foreign to me could you explain the difference of a wet and dry suit and why you should wear one and not the other when making certain dives?

And what is trimix consist of? Is it required to cave dive and used specifically for cave diving only?

Thanks in advance.

 

[dannobee]

Since all of this is foreign to me could you explain the difference of a wet and dry suit and why you should wear one and not the other when making certain dives?

And what is trimix consist of? Is it required to cave dive and used specifically for cave diving only?

Thanks in advance.

A drysuit is just that; you remain dry and use insulating underwear to keep you warm. Since the drysuit now contains air (or argon for better insulating properties), it adds buoyancy that offsets negatively buoyant steel tanks.

Trimix is a breathing gas consisting of oxygen, nitrogen, and helium. Adding helium to the mix reduces or eliminates narcosis on deep dives. Helium is also a worse insulator than air, so an argon bottle is used for drysuit inflation.

Neither is used exclusively for cave diving, but for deeper dives (trimix) or where the water temp or length of time in the water can cause hypothermia (drysuit).

 

[bamamedic]

A drysuit is kind of like a wearable form-fitting garbage bag. It's waterproof, so the diver doesn't get wet, only his hands and head.

A wetsuit is made of neoprene...the diver will get wet in a wetsuit, but the rubber neoprene helps keep the diver warm.

Trimix is a breathing gas used in deeper dives. Trimix consists of helium, oxygen, and nitrogen, whereas regular breathing gas is just a mixture of nitrogen and oxygen. It's used in deeper cave dives, because it helps the diver to think more clearly during deeper dives.