Accident at Lake Rawlings Sunday 05/27/2012

[tomfcrist]

Once again Jim, I understand where you're coming from. I just don't think that it is fair at this point in time, to blame any specific person for this incident. When the final report comes out we will all know what really happened.

 

[BDSC]

So who will issue a final report in this situation? I assume the police will issue something but how about an organization like PADI. Do they issue a report and make public their findings?

 

[tomfcrist]

The only report that will matter is the police investigation

 

[DandyDon]

So who will issue a final report in this situation? I assume the police will issue something but how about an organization like PADI. Do they issue a report and make public their findings?

I don't know if Padi will, or if it does - I doubt it will be made public. The police report will be available but perhaps limited as state laws don't really say much about how scuba diving should be done usually, so I doubt that they will check much. A civil suit might get more involved but often those outcomes are kept secret. DAN will have an entry in their annual accident reports in a couple of years and those are often informative, but based only on what is given to them.

On the other hand, laying blame is not why this forum exists. Our question is how can we prevent similar accidents, especially in OW classes when the students really feel they must do what they are told, trusting the Instructor to take care of them?

 

[wkw198]

in the united kingdom, our Health and Safety Executive requires at least 2 professionals with any teaching class. so there should always be at least one DM even (i believe) if only one student is being taught. the idea that an instructor could have six students and no DM and still be within PADI standards seems quite a stretch. maybe even if PADI don't want to impose tighter standards worldwide, the state or federal authorities should step in and lay down tougher conditions within their own jurisdictions. even if it means the DMs must be paid and increases the costs of instruction, if it is going to save lives it has to be worth considering.
we have all been around divers and dive schools where we think corners are being cut and things are not being done the way we would wish in an ideal world. over time complacency can build up. as a community we need to all stand up and report any incident no matter how small to the certifiying authorities that operation works under. at the end of the day PADI or other agency cannot act if they have not had the information. if they have had information and fail to act and then an incident happens then they are as liable as the operator in my opinion. it is in their interest to properly investigate and protect their own brand name from rogue operations. and to promote safety above all else.

if anyone (e.g. from outside the uk) cares to confirm this, the link is
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l105.pdf and it is discussed in the paragraphs 46-51 .

 

[mdax]

The police investigate crimes, they don't issue "reports" regarding scuba deaths. Have you ever seen an official report of a scuba death? I know of many deaths in the last couple years and not one has an "official" report...especially from anyone "official".

 

[Colliam7]

We're getting off topic. Please stop with the CESA, PADI standards comments. . . . Let's get back to the topic, please. . . . What other facts are the witnesses willing to present?

Fair enough, and I fully agree that we had previously strayed from the topic, in response to an early post about the requirements for a CA.

But, now, it seems that we are still straying (and, even farther afield) from facts. We seem to have an abundance of rampant speculation and unsubstantiated assertion. Oh, wow, a post in another thread appears to assail the quality of DM training at the same facility involved in this accident. The problem is, it is just that - an unsubstantiated post, which may have nothing to do with this accident. Can anyone say, 'Rush to judgement'? Yes, I agree with Jim, I do not understand how a diver dies in an OW training dive at Lake Rawlings. But, I would really like to know more about what actually happened - and that (what actually happened) is still a very gray area - before jumping to conclusions that 2+2 equals 4,231.

There will be no 'report' in the sense that an NTSB summary of an aviation accident might clarify what happened. But, I am still waitng for additional factual submissions by people actually present at Lake Rawlings on Sunday. I would like to see the moderator weigh in, again, to clarify the focus of the thread..

 

[DandyDon]

maybe even if PADI don't want to impose tighter standards worldwide, the state or federal authorities should step in and lay down tougher conditions within their own jurisdictions.

No, we don't want them involved. We want to keep our sport relatively safe ourselves. Many American lives are lost to drownings, but it should not happen on an OW class.

 

[Thalassamania]

...
In addition, the definition of "Direct Supervision" is to my mind, perhaps a little vague. It appears to be very clear that "direct supervision" does NOT mean being within arm's reach (or else how could you "directly supervise" 8 students at once!).

For what it is worth, due to our local conditions, I have a personal Open Water limit of 2 students at a time. This can make for some VERY long sessions!

You seem to get the definition just fine. When I wrote NAUI's standards back in the early 1980s I coined the phrases "direct supervision" and "indirect supervision" so I think that I'm the one to comment on what I meant. "Direct supervision" requires that the instructor be both close enough and in a position to directly observe a student so as to be able to intervene on the student's behalf in case of an emergency. So if conditions do not permit both situations to appertain, it may become necessary, as a direct result of the requirement for "direct supervision" to reduce the group size, possibly down to one to one, holding hands, or even scrubbing the dive.

 

[HIGHwing]

Staff, owners, DM's etc do not matter. What matters is an ow student was lost and died on a training dive. That should never happen. That it did is unforgiveable. Barring a previously unknown medical condition there is no reasonable excuse any instructor could make for this occurring.

Agreed. Barring a medical discovery, this case is simply going to come down to judgment.