Abernethy.... WTF????

[Steve_C]

This trip may have been "special" and a worthwhile dive. However, a worthwhile dive in good viz does not require messing with the wildlife.

Slate is known for feedings and other active interactions with animals. His own web pages have him holding two nurse sharks and eels on a regular basis. So those who do not feel that is what good divers do are not inappropriate in condemning him.

 

[danvolker]

Personally, I don't feel a desire to "pet" sharks or eels....that's just me.....But, on the other hand, Slate has had so much influence in the Keys over the last 30 years, that it would be hard to find a diver in the keys that has done MORE to effect legislative and law enforcement regulated PROTECTIONS for the marine ecosystem in the Key Largo area. In other words, he has protected far more underwater marine life, dramatically so, than has the OP.
Stress to an eel from his feeding, is arguable at best, and does not compare to threats of fishing or spearing, or pollution ---all of which Slate has actively worked against...again, much more so than the typical diver upset that someone "petted an eel" .

If the OP does not like slate's "petting zoo", then the OP does not need to dive with him....but Blaming Abernethy for it, and trying to portray Jim or Spencer as "bad people", when they have done far more than any of us to protect the Ocean, is wrong.

 

[ronscuba]

From an outsider's perspective, the choice of photo to promote the operator, event, etc., is disturbing.

Why did they choose that photo ? If the event is for veterans, why not highlight that fact ? Hugging a moray to promote the event ? I can see this possibly leading to a missing finger and how odd would that be for this event ?

 

[Rescue Diver68]

I'm confused. Why would Jim Abernethy have that picture of Spencer Slate on his website?

 

[Wookie]

Out of curiosity, Dan, and I am not trying to jack you up here, but I guess I don't understand your position. OBP took place somewhere in the Keys, and a bunch or very worthy divers (who happened to be adaptive divers, made so from a recent unpopular war or police action or whatever the current term is) were on a dive where the wildlife was harassed. Had they been on the Emerald at Breakers and shown top ocean predators up close for the same trip, would that have been OK?

To be very clear, I believe that there is a time and a place to harass wildlife. I would think it's on some piece of bottom where no one else goes, and where an unsuspecting diver would not be subject to reverse harassment by a fish looking for a handout. Neither Breakers (or Hole in the Wall) or anywhere in the FKNMS is that place, Tiger Beach comes to mind as an excellent place for such activity.

What makes it OK for Slate to have a Feeding Frenzy (oops, was that Creature Feature?) for a group you support, but not for a bunch of sports on Randy Jordan's boat?

I know I'm busting your balls here, but I'm trying to follow the logic.

 

[danvolker]

From an outsider's perspective, the choice of photo to promote the operator, event, etc., is disturbing.

Why did they choose that photo ? If the event is for veterans, why not highlight that fact ? Hugging a moray to promote the event ? I can see this possibly leading to a missing finger and how odd would that be for this event ?

The veterans wanted to dive with Spencer Slate....some of the OBP supporters...people that have been involved in donating to this charity, had set up the dive with Slate after hearing from the Veterans that this would be an experience they would like.

Spencer as you may know, has been doing this petting zoo concept for ages, and even in the early 90's was feeding a big cuda with a fish in his mouth....Spencer is a showman, and that is what some divers want for a dive now and then. I don't see the harm. I don't have to like every kind of dive you like, and you don't have to like every kind of dive I like..... For many people with few chances to dive in one year, or ever, this may be their solution to seeing as much as they can see of exciting underwater life.....Again, to me, this is alot better than their "opting" to go out on one of the 60 passenger , Fishing Party boats, and sitting on a 50 foot reef for several hours hooking fish, nurse sharks, or even the occasional moray eel--which by the way, is perfectly legal, advertised heavily, and the MAJORITY of the US population thinks this IS the way to enjoy the ocean. Slate has done alot to change that, by offering so many experiences to people that had never dived before, or that has so little interaction with marine life before that they would never have been emotionally connected to it otherwise.

Again, vilifying Slate, when Fishing party boats are the norm, is really attacking a powerful ally.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

In this vein, Dan, I see that Emerald is not going to stop bringing the feeding circus to the Bonaire. I for one will follow, and support, whatever maximum penalty FWS will impose on this operation.

Can they have their captain's license pulled if they are convicted of violating state law? It seems that nothing else will restrain their egos from ruining popolar dive sites. Just look at the latest video to see the behaviour they are inciting in the sharks. (oh, yeah, "no one died' (today), so I must be a fraidy-cat).

I admire, tremendously, both Jim and Spenser (his coral spawn dive was a revelation), but I do not support any active feeding operations.

 

[danvolker]

Out of curiosity, Dan, and I am not trying to jack you up here, but I guess I don't understand your position. OBP took place somewhere in the Keys, and a bunch or very worthy divers (who happened to be adaptive divers, made so from a recent unpopular war or police action or whatever the current term is) were on a dive where the wildlife was harassed. Had they been on the Emerald at Breakers and shown top ocean predators up close for the same trip, would that have been OK?

Wookie, this is a baby reef, where there are small fish and a nurse shark or two ....and some eels. I can't even imagine a real shark showing up ( sorry, I just can consider nurse sharks real sharks
The big outcry about what Emerald was doing, was because Palm Beach actually DOES HAVE alot of big bull sharks, big hammers, and even tigers, and these are common sights even with no baiting or feeding....the difference is Slate can bait or feed all day long, and if he is lucky he will get a nurse shark and an eel. There just are not the big ranging populations of bull sharks in his creature feature area---there is no big population of sharks to condition and behaviorally modify. If there was a big population of bulls and big hammers there, I imagine Spencer would re-think this issue of the creature feed. This site remains a very tame dive for novices or DSD's, and it does not appear as though Spencer could make this a big shark hang out if he tried.
At least, that is my take

To be very clear, I believe that there is a time and a place to harass wildlife. I would think it's on some piece of bottom where no one else goes, and where an unsuspecting diver would not be subject to reverse harassment by a fish looking for a handout. Neither Breakers (or Hole in the Wall) or anywhere in the FKNMS is that place, Tiger Beach comes to mind as an excellent place for such activity.

What makes it OK for Slate to have a Feeding Frenzy (oops, was that Creature Feature?) for a group you support, but not for a bunch of sports on Randy Jordan's boat?

I know I'm busting your balls here, but I'm trying to follow the logic.

Again, if Randy does this on the Hole in the Wall, he can bring in many hundreds of different Bull sharks and hammers and large reefies in any given month. Done over years, we have already seen the research, and it will change behaviors.....though after reading through much of the research in that big thread on the shark feeds, you may recall that I modified my initial position of outrage, and decided the research is not showing a clear and present danger when the feeds are conducted as they were in Fiji and French Polynesia. I would expect changes in dominant shark species to occur over time, but the research does not show the dangers that seemed obvious at the start of the thread.
I still am against feeding, and am fine with baiting, BUT, I am not violently against feeding any longer. I think it can be done in a manner where the long term results to the positive, will drastically outweigh the negatives. The areas of Fiji and French Polynesia would be far more likely to suffer shark finning and major eco-destruction, if not for the powerful protections that the Shark Tourism has afforded them.
I am inclined to think Randy needs to visit Fiji or Polynesia, and learn from them on better ways to do the feeds, than the Cowboy style we see in all his Youtube videos. And science needs to become involved, and to workout a method to prevent frustration levels from developing in the low pecking order smaller sharks--so that not being fed due to the bigger sharks, does not lead to a frustration/aggression reaction to a nearby diver.
For Spencer, the only frustration/aggression potential I saw was from some of the Damsel fish nearby--and if these guys ever grew to become 6 feet long, we would not be safe in a submarine !

 

[Wookie]

My take is slightly different. I was in a fisheries meeting not too long ago. The common thread I heard is that the Key West charter fleet is unanimous that there are too many sharks off of Key West. Now, I feel blessed when I see a shark, I hardly see any. I guess that means that if you bait sharks (a byproduct of baiting fish), you'll see sharks, but since I operate in a reserve where such activities are prohibited, I stand a good chance of not seeing sharks. Then, the charter fleet captains are so mad at seeing all of the bulls and hammers taking their sport's catch they claim they are shooting them. Now, that may be all BS, or it may be true, but feeding alters the natural behavior. I haven't, don't, and do not plan to feed wildlife. It seems to me that you are making a definition based on scale. Not OK to feed top predators, but cheez whiz for the french angels is OK.

You remember the old joke about the man who offers the woman a million dollars for the night of his fantasies. The woman readily agrees. He then offers her 20 bucks. She turns him down, exclaiming "What kind of woman do you think I am?" He replies "we've established what kind of woman you are, now we're negotiating price."

 

[danvolker]

My take is slightly different. I was in a fisheries meeting not too long ago. The common thread I heard is that the Key West charter fleet is unanimous that there are too many sharks off of Key West. Now, I feel blessed when I see a shark, I hardly see any. I guess that means that if you bait sharks (a byproduct of baiting fish), you'll see sharks, but since I operate in a reserve where such activities are prohibited, I stand a good chance of not seeing sharks. Then, the charter fleet captains are so mad at seeing all of the bulls and hammers taking their sport's catch they claim they are shooting them. Now, that may be all BS, or it may be true, but feeding alters the natural behavior. I haven't, don't, and do not plan to feed wildlife. It seems to me that you are making a definition based on scale. Not OK to feed top predators, but cheez whiz for the french angels is OK.

You remember the old joke about the man who offers the woman a million dollars for the night of his fantasies. The woman readily agrees. He then offers her 20 bucks. She turns him down, exclaiming "What kind of woman do you think I am?" He replies "we've established what kind of woman you are, now we're negotiating price."

Funny Story.....
As to the sharks and the fishing boats, I think the BIGGER PICTURE than what the fishing boats want to think about, is that the Sharks have already learned the large boat, typically means FISHING BOAT, and Fishing boat = easy meals....

This is one reason you don't want to jump off a big slow moving 350 foot research vessel far out in the ocean, and do a smim without mask or fins or something like a big camera in your hands....because Sharks see large boats--probably anything over 30 feet, certainly the really big ones, and they have learned that most of these will mean free food, so they begin to follow. This comes to mind after I watched one of the Shark Week videos where a big research ship let a bunch of crew go for a mid-ocean dip, and a 16 foot shark swam right up to a swimmer, bite tested her, than took her leg off. The issue here, is that she should NEVER have been doing a swim next to a SHARK MAGNET like a big ship.....

The fishing boats have taught every shark in the area that their boats mean FOOD. You guys could stop dropping divers there for the next 5 years, and all the problems the fisherman have with sharks, will continue--because it was not the divers doing anything, it was the fishing.