Abby Sunderland possibly lost at sea.

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OK, that's your opinion but I don't share it.

As for the risks? How many teenage sailors have circumnavigated the planet and died or even needed rescue in the attempt vs adults attempting the same feat?

She is indeed an accomplished sailor and one that will do just fine in life.
Ok well, I am not a sailor so maybe I am not qualified to criticize. Sounds impossible but her brother did it so based only on that, why not her.

I'm very glad that she is safe, not lost at sea or sitting in a pirate camp awaiting ransom.

I'd be impressed if she ask the fishing vessel to go about their plans, give her a job for her room, board and transport so as to not inconvenience them more - and maybe she will. The fact that she is a female minor didn't stop her from the adventure so it shouldn't stop her from living on the vessel for a while.

I'll be very impressed if she were to assign all royalties and other proceeds to a worthy charity, since I know that the companies and governments involved won't accept reimbursements. Hell, I'll buy the book. :eyebrow:
 
Costs: The costs of the chartered plane were not paid for with Tax dollars as I understand it. The fishing boat did deviate from their plans to come and rescue her, but they are still fishing.

Even if the cost were entirely born by society at large, which it is not, why would we bemoan it. Why would we compare the cost of one young person striving as we as humans always have to be better, to be faster, to go farther, or to simply follow our dreams to any other course of action? We as societies have always spent money to support adventurers, because we have to. They hold the collective spirit of all of us to do something bigger than we think we are capable of. To prove that humanity is not just the day to day drudgery. Their adventures take us with them vicariously. They serve to lift our goals and visions by following their own. The cost of a rescue or two is a very high return on investment.

As far as safety, there are some questions I have as someone that has been out there in that in a small boat. But they are simply questions as to why the timing was done as it was.

She is not getting back immediately either. Although not stated in the media blitz, based on her return date, and the statement that she is to be transferred to another boat, I suspect that the fishing boat is carrying on fishing. The fishing boat was required by international law, and a lot of very old customs to render any and all aid they are able to any vessel in distress. Deviations to assist other sailors on the ocean is something we do because we must, and we want to. However that understanding is not something most people will ever experience.

The idea that young people should be incarcerated until they reach an age that they have been thoroughly brainwashed into the dominant paradigm is a modern idea. Children are not safe in our schools, their hearts and minds are not safe in our societies; and in most cases in the families in our country.

Read about the great people that have come before us... What made them great, their submissiveness to social norms, their dogged determination to stay in school, or was it their dreams, goals, and most importantly ambition.

Safety and fear are two side of a coin that is sold to all of us daily. The fear to do anything, and the promise of being kept safe by playing within social rules. Both are false promises. Don't place your fear of the world, and of making something of yourself on this young woman.

The great tragedy here is not that this young woman tried and failed to accomplish her goals, but the the majority of the sheeple of the modern developed countries lead lives of quiet desperation without any idea of their own dreams and goals. The tragedy is in the majority of people that do not do, not in the very few who have the heart to do.

Push yourselves, push the limits, learn to live.

"Argue for your limitations and they are yours."

Guy
:)
 
Costs: The costs of the chartered plane were not paid for with Tax dollars as I understand it. The fishing boat did deviate from their plans to come and rescue her, but they are still fishing.

Even if the cost were entirely born by society at large, which it is not, why would we bemoan it. Why would we compare the cost of one young person striving as we as humans always have to be better, to be faster, to go farther, or to simply follow our dreams to any other course of action? We as societies have always spent money to support adventurers, because we have to. They hold the collective spirit of all of us to do something bigger than we think we are capable of. To prove that humanity is not just the day to day drudgery. Their adventures take us with them vicariously. They serve to lift our goals and visions by following their own. The cost of a rescue or two is a very high return on investment.

As far as safety, there are some questions I have as someone that has been out there in that in a small boat. But they are simply questions as to why the timing was done as it was.

She is not getting back immediately either. Although not stated in the media blitz, based on her return date, and the statement that she is to be transferred to another boat, I suspect that the fishing boat is carrying on fishing. The fishing boat was required by international law, and a lot of very old customs to render any and all aid they are able to any vessel in distress. Deviations to assist other sailors on the ocean is something we do because we must, and we want to. However that understanding is not something most people will ever experience.

The idea that young people should be incarcerated until they reach an age that they have been thoroughly brainwashed into the dominant paradigm is a modern idea. Children are not safe in our schools, their hearts and minds are not safe in our societies; and in most cases in the families in our country.

Read about the great people that have come before us... What made them great, their submissiveness to social norms, their dogged determination to stay in school, or was it their dreams, goals, and most importantly ambition.

Safety and fear are two side of a coin that is sold to all of us daily. The fear to do anything, and the promise of being kept safe by playing within social rules. Both are false promises. Don't place your fear of the world, and of making something of yourself on this young woman.

The great tragedy here is not that this young woman tried and failed to accomplish her goals, but the the majority of the sheeple of the modern developed countries lead lives of quiet desperation without any idea of their own dreams and goals. The tragedy is in the majority of people that do not do, not in the very few who have the heart to do.

Push yourselves, push the limits, learn to live.

"Argue for your limitations and they are yours."

Guy
:)

That was so good.
There are those who are unwilling to use public money for a rescue but are fine with cradle to grave entitlements for those who refuse to try to achieve.
 
Giving a young driver the keys to a high performance car is significantly increasing the possibility of serious injury or worse. It's not the car's speed to blame but the parents who provided the vehicle in the first place. Parents also do young drivers no favors by providing sub-compacts. Survival in the case of a major impact is severely compromised. A used mid-sized car or SUV has always been the practice of my extended family...

I didn't mean to threadjack this into a discussion of auto safety, but want to make four quick points.

One, I agree the parents are largely responsible for putting unqualified drivers behind the wheel of high performance cars. My point was that it's a matter of degrees. A 300 hp Mustang doesnt = unsafe where a 130 hp Civic = safe.

Two, we are all responsible to some degree because we don't demand more qualified drivers via better driver training, more rigorous intial testing and more aggressive restriction of driving priviledges for those that fail to comply with laws.

Three, there is very little corelation in crash test data between size and safety.

Four, I'd put a kid in a high powered car before I put them in an SUV. The high powered car at least has the brakes and suspension to give them a prayer of getting out of a stupid mistake. Once the SUV is in trouble, it's much more likely to end up on it's roof. This is my personal opinion, but it's based on 10 years of drag racing, 12 years of road racing and 8 years of high performance driving instructing experience.

Safety and fear are two side of a coin that is sold to all of us daily. The fear to do anything, and the promise of being kept safe by playing within social rules. Both are false promises. Don't place your fear of the world, and of making something of yourself on this young woman.

The great tragedy here is not that this young woman tried and failed to accomplish her goals, but the the majority of the sheeple of the modern developed countries lead lives of quiet desperation without any idea of their own dreams and goals. The tragedy is in the majority of people that do not do, not in the very few who have the heart to do.

Wisdom.
 
Parents are divorced. If I recall it was her father who wanted her to do it and her mother who sued her father to stop the trip. I'm with the mom.
Could you be wrong about this...?

Wiki...
The second-eldest of Marianne and Laurence Sunderland's seven children (with an eighth due to be born in June 2010), Sunderland grew up sailing with her family. Her family is devoutly Christian and her father has stated that, "We are born-again Christians, and we don't make any decision just based on feeling or even on sound knowledge." She and her siblings have been homeschooled, according to an interview given by her mother.

Otherwise...
Last year a Netherlands court concerned about safety blocked a 13-year-old girl's plan to sail around the world, sparking debate on the role of authorities and parents when children want to undertake risky adventures.
 
I don't know if Qantas supplied the search plane or if it was chartered by someone? The closest vessel ceased its commercial fishing and headed to pickup of course. A day and a half to there, a day or more to port to be announced, a day or more back to work - 4 or more days not in the commercial operations financed by owners to rescue the idiot. Australia and I think US sent backup planes.

The coordination (and therefore most probably most of the expense) was passed from the French to Australia once she was located in international waters for which Australia has responsibility for. I would think Qantas has been reimbursed for that cost from AUSSAR which is the body responsible for coordinating search and rescue within Australia's juristiction, but have no doubt Qantas has benefited from the publicity it has generated.


Costs: The costs of the chartered plane were not paid for with Tax dollars as I understand it. The fishing boat did deviate from their plans to come and rescue her, but they are still fishing.

The cost may not have been paid for by YOUR tax dollars, but they have been paid for by someone's tax dollars...MINE! And, having been involved in a search and rescue I know that the fishing vessel will be more than compensated, and they have to be otherwise (with human nature the way it is) you run the risk of people 'not hearing' the call.

Even if the cost were entirely born by society at large, which it is not, why would we bemoan it. Why would we compare the cost of one young person striving as we as humans always have to be better, to be faster, to go farther, or to simply follow our dreams to any other course of action? [yada yada yada...] The cost of a rescue or two is a very high return on investment.

Are you serious??? The reason why we should 'bemoan' the cost is Australia, by comparison to other countries, has a very large remote area for which it has accepted responsibility for and a very small population base for which to seek the funding from.

Here's what pisses me off. It is not a matter of whether or not we should have saved a life but one of whether that life should have been in a position of needing to be saved in the first place.
As an Australian, I am fed up with idiot 'round-the-world sailors (including our own) putting themselves in a position where our rescue personal and resources need to risk their lives and spend millions of dollars to save someone's dumb arse from just about the most remote place on the planet. One stupid Briton (a millionaire by the way) has had to be rescued twice!

The great tragedy here is not that this young woman tried and failed to accomplish her goals, but the the majority of the sheeple of the modern developed countries lead lives of quiet desperation without any idea of their own dreams and goals. The tragedy is in the majority of people that do not do, not in the very few who have the heart to do.

No! The great tragedy is that she was stupid enough to be there in the first place after having been warned not to do so and having no emergency 'Plan B' other than a couple of EPIRBS, AND that others had to then risk their lives and spend a fortune to rescue her.
Her mother has reportedly said that if the Australian Government wants some financial compensation then they should get it from the U.S Authorities. How about making a donation? How about pledging a % from selling her story? How about showing some gratitude for saving her childs life when she shouldn't have let her be there in the first place!

The Australian Government says it has not and will not be seeking any compensation as it sees it as doing its duty in this regard. It is the Australian community that has had enough of it. Fair enough if they are properly equipped, crewed, take all of the safety precautions and something goes horribly wrong, but this isn't one of those situations. If you want to do this sort of thing and take this sort of risk, then they should be made to take a route closer to land, provide at least an element of backup (ie another vessel in the vicinity) and take out "I'm an idiot" rescue insurance, otherwise don't enter our area of responsibility and jail them if they do and then call on us to rescue them.

If I have an accident and don't have ambulance cover then I could be up for $1000s, several $1000s if it is a chopper ride.

When you take an overseas dive trip, don't you take out DAN insurance?

Why should these "adventurers" be any different? They are not doing anything new, they are not discovering new worlds or making the first pacific flight, first crossing of the Indian Ocean, it is not even the first solo circumnavigation by a 16 year old!
WHAT IS THE POINT?


Push yourselves, push the limits, learn to live.

"Argue for your limitations and they are yours."

Guy
:)

Fine, just don't expect some one else to come and save you from yourself.

That was so good.
There are those who are unwilling to use public money for a rescue but are fine with cradle to grave entitlements for those who refuse to try to achieve.



Feel free to make a donation if that's the way you feel. You can find out where to direct monies too by contacting AUSSAR Canberra ACT Australia.

</RANT MODE OFF>
 
Rather good summary of the problems therre, Burna...
No! The great tragedy is that she was stupid enough to be there in the first place after having been warned not to do so and having no emergency 'Plan B' other than a couple of EPIRBS, AND that others had to then risk their lives and spend a fortune to rescue her.

Her mother has reportedly said that if the Australian Government wants some financial compensation then they should get it from the U.S Authorities. How about making a donation? How about pledging a % from selling her story? How about showing some gratitude for saving her childs life when she shouldn't have let her be there in the first place!
Yeah, providing her own shadow rescue boat would have been responsible. Taking her I've fallen and can't get up buttons put it off on others. What's with this "they should get it from the U.S Authorities"; did she really say that?! They don't seem to be taking any parental responsibilities for any of this do they? We know that the book is already in the works; how about pledging all proceeds?
If I have an accident and don't have ambulance cover then I could be up for $1000s, several $1000s if it is a chopper ride.

When you take an overseas dive trip, don't you take out DAN insurance?

Why should these "adventurers" be any different? They are not doing anything new, they are not discovering new worlds or making the first pacific flight, first crossing of the Indian Ocean, it is not even the first solo circumnavigation by a 16 year old!
WHAT IS THE POINT?
:thumb:
 
....I know that the fishing vessel will be more than compensated, and they have to be otherwise (with human nature the way it is) you run the risk of people 'not hearing' the call.
Doubtful. It' more likely that no Captain wants other Captains to *not hear* their call. The money gets worked out well after the rescue.

Here's what pisses me off. It is not a matter of whether or not we should have saved a life but one of whether that life should have been in a position of needing to be saved in the first place.
No one ever hopes they need rescuing but most take the necessary steps to give them the best chance should they need it. But, so what? There are thousands of preventable accidents everyday, all over the planet. This one just made the news.

No! The great tragedy is that she was stupid enough to be there in the first place...
Hardly a great tragedy. Huge oil spills, floods or hurricanes that kill 1,000's, the senseless slaughter of millions of sharks or innocent children being killed by suicide bombers are tragedies. One brave, young lady seeking a life changing goal is not even on the last page of that list.

The Australian Government says it has not and will not be seeking any compensation as it sees it as doing its duty in this regard.
I admire them for that decision.

When you take an overseas dive trip, don't you take out DAN insurance? Why should these "adventurers" be any different?
And you know they don't for a fact?

They are not doing anything new, they are not discovering new worlds or making the first pacific flight, first crossing of the Indian Ocean, it is not even the first solo circumnavigation by a 16 year old!
WHAT IS THE POINT?
I guess the phrase "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand." applies.
 
Doubtful. It' more likely that no Captain wants other Captains to *not hear* their call. The money gets worked out well after the rescue.

Of course it gets 'worked out well after the rescue', the operator submits a bill for the rescue. It will be costed at the highest rate and then some. As I said, I've been involved in a search and rescue and seen it first hand, I don't agree with it but I've seen it nonetheless.


No one ever hopes they need rescuing but most take the necessary steps to give them the best chance should they need it. But, so what? There are thousands of preventable accidents everyday, all over the planet. This one just made the news.

She could have taken a more northerly route closer to land not only to facilitate an easier rescue but to increase her chances of having another vessel close by in case something went wrong.

But she was well south of regular shipping routes in notoriously unforgiving and remote waters, probably chasing the roaring forties in an attempt to break some meaningless speed record. She was warned not to sail into the southern Indian Ocean and Southern Ocean in winter and yet, she did and what was her 'best chance' for rescue? A couple of EPIRBS. :thumb:

Hardly a great tragedy. Huge oil spills, floods or hurricanes that kill 1,000's, the senseless slaughter of millions of sharks or innocent children being killed by suicide bombers are tragedies. One brave, young lady seeking a life changing goal is not even on the last page of that list.

I struggle to see the relevance of your 'tragedies' listed, people responsible for those 'tragedies' will pay for their crimes (although you might be hard pushed to find someone responsible for hurricanes!)

There always has been and always will be stupid people who do stupid things. Why should we facilitate this? By repeatedly rescuing these people (effectively from themselves) we are actually encouraging them to take the risk in the first place. If a person contemplating a voyage such as hers was faced with the prospect of either a) having to pay for a rescue should they need it, or b) have to take a route that would facilitate an easier rescue and if they don't and subsequently need to be rescued then jail time, then I bet they would think twice about it.

I admire them for that decision.

To take unnecessary risks and expect others to risk their lives to save them? Good one! :thumb: She's not just a few miles off the coast!

And you know they don't for a fact?

No. But there has been no mention of it. Her mother says the money should be recovered from U.S authorities. If there is insurance, we will see.

I guess the phrase "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand." applies.

No, I don't understand where someone thinks that saving their dumb arse is someone else's responsibility. I guess the next time she attempts this 'life changing experience' we will have to risk having to rescue her again.

I bet the family won't think twice about starting a fund raiser to pay for a new vessel and the next attempt but offering some sort of donation to the organisations responsible for saving their child's life won't even enter the minds.
 
I bet the family won't think twice about starting a fund raiser to pay for a new vessel and the next attempt but offering some sort of donation to the organisations responsible for saving their child's life won't even enter the minds.
I have a hunch you're right. Maybe not, but they seem to think along those lines. Saving her life was "priceless", especially since it didn't cost them.

What's next, 14 year olds, 12s, 8s going to see alone around the world...?
 

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