A startling descent

[Bubbletrubble]

Given that your goal in surfacing was to rapidly reunify the team do you think a safety stop was appropriate? It seems very early in a dive that a safety stop would not be required, but it gets more compelling as the dives goes on. So there may be no universal rule.

Mr Carcharodon raises an important point. I've found that divers fresh out of basic OW class 99.9% of the time will do a safety stop when dealing with lost buddy/buddy separation. I think they fear that if they don't conduct a safety stop, they will get DCS.

With novice divers, I make it a point to discuss lost buddy procedures at the beginning of the dive (during initial descent) and at the "end" of the dive. I tell them that, under normal circumstances, I won't do a safety stop at the beginning of the dive since my nitrogen-loading is minimal...but I will conduct a deliberate, controlled ascent to the surface. In contrast, I will probably do a 3 minute safety stop if the buddy separation occurs near the end of the dive when nitrogen-loading is more significant.

With newer divers, I find it best to be within arm's length throughout the entirety of the descent. The vis where I dive is not always the greatest, and beginner divers will often have problems with ear equalization or other equipment issues during initial descent. This raises the likelihood of buddy separation. Descending in this manner does require good buoyancy skills, though.

 

[skatermegs]

You make a good point- and we have talked a lot about safety stops since then. We were taught that any time you descend beneath 80 ft you do a safety stop, even on a bounce dive. I now realize that for how little time we were there it wasn't necessary, and its been in our discussion. My direct buddy and I have talked about the situation and how to handle it, as well as how to handle issues in the future. We have a clear plan in place, and are re-confirmed in our strict "plan the dive, dive the plan" philosophy. So, it was a really great learning experience.
Lynn-
We dove Octo Hole the weekend after, and it seems as if the tides have really kept water high out there- I dove with another buddy closer to my expereince level and we descended in our usual spot (pre-heavy rains) and dropped at about 65 feet (which for the two of us was fine), but where would usually be about 50. We were headed to the deep wall anyway, so it served us well (not much of a wall though). I can't wait to dive with you either! Let me know your schedule, I definitely have some questions about gear set ups and such!

 

[Deefstes]

In contrast, I will probably do a 3 minute safety stop if the buddy separation occurs near the end of the dive when nitrogen-loading is more significant.

I'm curious if even that is necessary. I always thought the safety stop is nothing but a good habit but certainly not gospel and certainly not something worth clinging to when you don't know where your buddy is an whether or not he/she is safe. In a worst case scenario, if your buddy is entangled somewhere and without air, 3 minutes is a frighteningly long time (especially if it occurred near the end of the dive). I would think the safer strategy would be never to push your no deco limits so that you can always skip a safety stop if needed.

I don't do deco diving and I'm sure the game rules change significantly when you do. But when doing NDL diving, a safety stop is just that, as safety stop. It is not a deco stop. I saw two divers once doing a "safety stop" in open water (having lost sight of the upline) and they drifted hundreds of meters away from the boat. I couldn't help but think that their "safety stop" was really an "unsafety stop" as the risk they incurred just far outweighed the benefit.

Your thoughts?

 

[skatermegs]

Remember in PADI at least that after 80 ft (could be 70 my tables are in my dive bag) a safety stop is required, not recommended. So, at the end of a fairly deep dive even though it isn't a deco stop it isn't wise to skip those three minutes. It becomes a balance of your safety and your buddies safety...not a fun game to play! I would love to know what some more experienced divers think though!

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

Keep in mind that the PADI DSAT tables you refer to are exclusively designed for no-deco diving, therefore a safety stop is just that, for added safety. So in spite of what the tables have printed on them, I ask you to ask yourself, how can a safety stop be actually required? Seems like a few too many gun-shy lawyers were involved in the development of these tables.

 

[Deefstes]

Remember in PADI at least that after 80 ft (could be 70 my tables are in my dive bag) a safety stop is required, not recommended. So, at the end of a fairly deep dive even though it isn't a deco stop it isn't wise to skip those three minutes. It becomes a balance of your safety and your buddies safety...not a fun game to play! I would love to know what some more experienced divers think though!

I'm not PADI certified so I don't know what you are taught by PADI but my understanding is that, if it is "required" it is not a "safety stop" but a "deco stop", and something a recreational diver should never have to do.

 

[wve]

I'm not PADI certified so I don't know what you are taught by PADI but my understanding is that, if it is "required" it is not a "safety stop" but a "deco stop", and something a recreational diver should never have to do.

Whether or not "required" safety stops are really required seems to be a recurring question and point of argument here.

It is really a matter of semantics. And remember, the Recreational Dive Planner (RDP) used by PADI is for dive PLANNING!

The RDP is, by definition and design, not intended to be used to plan dives beyond certain limits. According to the RDP, deco stops are only used whenever you accidentally violate the limits of depth, time or both.

The RDP recommends that you plan to do a "safety stop" at the end of virtually every dive. You don't have to, but doing so adds a level of safety even if it does not seem necessary.

A "required safety stop" is a bad word choice on the part of the RDP designers. Perhaps they should have said "really strongly recommended" instead of "required."

They were addressing the question of what divers should do when they plan dives that are closer and closer to the edges of the DCS cliff (for example, when a planned dive is to deeper than 100 ft or when the ending pressure group will be within 3 groups of the NDL).

"Required" safety stops are not really "required" in the same sense that a deco stop is. In other words, if you skip a "required" safety stop, you are not as likely to get punished by mother nature as when you skip a deco stop. But if you are planning a dive that approaches the limits, you are strongly urged to plan to make the stop.

Making the "required" stops will keep you within the limits of the table which have actual dive data to back up the level of safety. You may skip them, but you should not PLAN to skip them.

At least that's how I think of it.

 

[Deefstes]

That makes perfect sense to me. That's more or less what I've been taught about safety stops as well.

Making the "required" stops will keep you within the limits of the table which have actual dive data to back up the level of safety. You may skip them, but you should not PLAN to skip them.

Good summary. And within this definition I would think a buddy seperation, especially towards the end of the dive, would be the perfect reason to skip the safety stop. Unless of course you plan on getting seperated from your buddy in which case I think the safety stop is the least of your problems

 

[Bubbletrubble]

In contrast, I will probably do a 3 minute safety stop if the buddy separation occurs near the end of the dive when nitrogen-loading is more significant.

I'm curious if even that is necessary. I always thought the safety stop is nothing but a good habit but certainly not gospel and certainly not something worth clinging to when you don't know where your buddy is an whether or not he/she is safe.

A safety stop is not necessary.

My post was just a statement of what I would probably do and an example of the kind of pre-dive discussion that I would have with any new-to-me buddy. In a buddy separation scenario, I think the idea is for the divers involved to have an estimate of the reasonable timeframe for each of them to reach the surface (search time + ascent time +/- safety stop) from the time that each diver recognizes that a buddy separation has occurred. Would I actually do a full 3 minute stop if a nervous, low-on-air novice were my buddy and we became separated? Nope.

In a worst case scenario, if your buddy is entangled somewhere and without air, 3 minutes is a frighteningly long time (especially if it occurred near the end of the dive). I would think the safer strategy would be never to push your no deco limits so that you can always skip a safety stop if needed.

Obviously, my actions in a particular scenario would be dictated by the dive conditions, the experience levels of the people involved, parameters of the dive profile, potential hazards in the local water, etc. If you read the entirety of my post, you'll notice that I qualified my statement with "under normal circumstances." FWIW, at the local dive site where I'd be conducting my first dive with a newbie, there are no entanglement hazards, vis averages 10-15 ft., and underwater topography from a 5 ft. high wall (approx. 100 yards) to shore is gently sloping. The dive profile has a max depth of 55-60 fsw and total bottom time of about 40 minutes. Boat traffic within the borders of the ecological reserve is rare.

I saw two divers once doing a "safety stop" in open water (having lost sight of the upline) and they drifted hundreds of meters away from the boat. I couldn't help but think that their "safety stop" was really an "unsafety stop" as the risk they incurred just far outweighed the benefit.

I really don't have enough information to agree with you about that "unsafety stop." What was their profile on the dive in question and their nitrogen-loading status from previous dives? Was there current present? Was this a "live" boat pick-up? How far away from land was the site? Was this a popular dive site with other dive boats in the area? Did the divers have a DSMB with them and did they deploy it? What kinds of surface signaling equipment did they have? You don't need to answer all of these questions. I pose them only as points to ponder.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I wonder if a more important question than a safety stop is, what do you do when you ascend and locate your buddy's bubble stream and he does not appear to be ascending?

If you are REALLY trying to provide safety to your buddy, I would think that it would be safer to skip the safety stop, locate the bubble stream and then descend down it relatively quickly in case the lost buddy is entangled on the bottom.

Doing a 3 minute safety stop will tend to put you further from the location where the buddy separation occured and will thus reduce the probability that you will locate a bubble stream and be capable to render aid to a diver in trouble at depth.