a spin off to the dying a hero thread...

[Sas]

I've sat awake at night reliving and replaying things that happened in training. If its a bunch of stuff that would all likelihood never happen, I'm much more likely to brush off and ignore a failure. My own failures, however, tend to consume me until I reconcile them.

If my instructor unscrewed both of my posts and sliced my wing after taking my teammates' mask and simultaneously filling his wing and suit, it's unlikely I'd be able to resolve it. But I also wouldn't care. That's the difference.

(again, this is just how I learn. YMMV.)

I do not think OOA is a particularly unrealistic scenario to practice. I mean Rainer has had a buddy that had one, rjack has gone OOA, as have you, as has two divers that peterbj7 was diving with.

I have never gone OOA or LOA, so it is good that I have had this training so that if it ever happens to me then it will be something I am prepared for.

Also I would be wary of never having been stressed out during training personally. Don't you want to know how you will cope with stress? I have seen some highly experienced divers freak out due to stress testing.

 

[rjack321]

In training or in a real situation?

Once for real although I wasn't OOA

You've been missing the main point here: do you think that students should undergo stress testing as part of training?

Of course I think "stress" should be a part of technical and to some extent recreational dive training.

Lightening bolt OOAs are "just" stress in isolation. Good instructors can convince/befuddle divers and make them shut off their own or their buddies gas - which honestly is far more illuminating about how perceptions can narrow from rushing, CO2, narcosis, or just plain tunnel vision from being over-capacity.

Popping OOAs randomly is not very instructional which is why I have asked the OP several times what this event was supposed to teach her. What was the debrief about? If the circumstances were appropriate and genuinely instructional I'm fine with the instructor shutting off gas. If its just a random OOA I don't think the instructor is very good.

 

[Blackwood]

I do not think OOA is a particularly unrealistic scenario to practice. I mean Rainer has had a buddy that had one, rjack has gone OOA, as have you, as has two divers that peterbj7 was diving with.

I have never gone OOA or LOA, so it is good that I have had this training so that if it ever happens to me then it will be something I am prepared for.

Also I would be wary of never having been stressed out during training personally. Don't you want to know how you will cope with stress? I have seen some highly experienced divers freak out due to stress testing.

I'm not arguing against OOG training. I'm not even arguing against an instructor turning off my breathing gas. I just don't see the latter as particularly valuable relative to a more realistic scenario.

FWIW, my OOG and Rainer's buddy's OOG only counts as one anecdote

 

[ucfdiver]

You've been missing the main point here: do you think that students should undergo stress testing as part of training?

Yes, but you can do it smarter.

One Example-
Give them a post failure so they shut off their left post, and 5min later put their buddy OOA so that they donate (then switch to a dead reg).

 

[Sas]

Once for real although I wasn't OOA

Then what does this mean: "I've had buddies swim off while I was OOA. And fail to donate too."

I am confused about what you are talking about here. Perhaps you could lay out the scenario/s where you have had to undergo stress as part of your training.

Of course I think "stress" should be a part of technical and to some extent recreational dive training.

Lightening bolt OOAs are "just" stress in isolation. Good instructors can convince/befuddle divers and make them shut off their own or their buddies gas - which honestly is far more illuminating about how perceptions can narrow from rushing, CO2, narcosis, or just plain tunnel vision from being over-capacity.

They are not mutually exclusive things to do during training.

What is the problem with just having stress in insolation?

You already said in a past post that an instructor has never turned off your air during training, how do you know if it is not an appropriate method of training then?

Popping OOAs randomly is not very instructional which is why I have asked the OP several times what this event was supposed to teach her. What was the debrief about? If the circumstances were appropriate and genuinely instructional I'm fine with the instructor shutting off gas. If its just a random OOA I don't think the instructor is very good.

Well I have found them very instructional in my own training, as have been setups by my instructor that have caused me to make mistakes.

I've undergone both, and I learned more from stress testing.

I'm not arguing against OOG training. I'm not even arguing against an instructor turning off my breathing gas. I just don't see the latter as particularly valuable relative to a more realistic scenario.

Well we can agree to disagree then. I am just surprised that people who have never had their gas turned off by an instructor would be dismissive of it given their lack of experience in this area. Or consider it an unrealistic scenario.

 

[Sas]

Yes, but you can do it smarter.

One Example-
Give them a post failure so they shut off their left post, and 5min later put their buddy OOA so that they donate (then switch to a dead reg).

I have had this happen to me. I donated my primary and went to turn on my left post so I could access my backup. Was stopped by my instructor (fair enough, it was supposed to be a post failure) so we buddy breathed.

You can do both ways of testing. You said that

A sudden OOA situation is unrealistic and serves only to create panic. I would start instructor shopping if I were you.

It is not unrealistic nor should it lead to panic.

Have you had an instructor switch off your gas before? Did you panic?

 

[tkdgodess]

It was NOT random, it was during drills and started with a single issue, solved, two issues, solved, three issues solved. I was not just swimming around and bam! OOA! It was time to do this, we did not know what the failure were going to be, or the combination of one or two tasks was completely random, but we clearly knew we were there to do this. Teach me? I am still deciding. In the heat of the moment my brain said OOA primary reg, isolator open, signal OOA to buddy, he donated (could kind of make him out in the blurr right infront of me). I was debriefed that I acted properly, got my priorities right, air, mask, recclip. I don't like being OOA. If I went to my necklace I would have had air, but then again my brain said primary ooa, isolator open, signal OOA. Doing it without my mask flooded would have been too easy.

 

[DevonDiver]

I've not bothered to read most of this thread...just skipped here from the 1st page.

My point is this.... regardless of the scenario, the tech-diver must be able to deal with it. So... immediate OOA may be unrealistic.. so what? It could happen, for numerous reasons. What matters is that the diver concerned can deal with it. Their training should lead them to an immediate, instinctive resolution.

Realistic scenarions provide immediate, instinctive reactions. That is critical for aspiring tech divers.

Less-realistic or less likely scenarios provide the student with the opportunity to apply known drills against unknown incidents. That's an important skill also.

 

[ucfdiver]

Have you had an instructor switch off your gas before? Did you panic?

Only time I've been OOA for real was when I wasn't paying attention during my deep stops and let a stage go dry on me. Even then I knew on the last breath what had happened, so I had about 30 seconds to fix it and go back to my backup reg.

 

[Sas]

Only time I've been OOA for real was when I wasn't paying attention during my deep stops and let a stage go dry on me. Even then I knew on the last breath what had happened, so I had about 30 seconds to fix it and go back to my backup reg.

That does not answer the questions I asked which were

"Have you had an instructor switch off your gas before? Did you panic?"

It was in response to your claim:

"A sudden OOA situation is unrealistic and serves only to create panic. I would start instructor shopping if I were you. "

I am wondering where you get these ideas.