A somewhat sad conversation last night

[JamesK]

Isn't that what PADI's Peek Performance Buoyancy is supposed to be for? SMH.


When I went through OW with NAUI, got a PADI card as well, my instructor knew what my motivation for SCUBA was. So we worked much longer in the pool doing all skills hovering. I spent many hours doing pool work in a one on one setting. Personally I wish that still happened.

---------- Post added May 18th, 2012 at 05:21 PM ----------

Wow, I just thought about it. This thread has gone PLAID!

 

[boulderjohn]

Isn't that what PADI's Peek Performance Buoyancy is supposed to be for? SMH.

The problem with PPB is that they've already used the name for that course, so creating a new name for the new course is a challenge.

As one who has been in discussions with PADI about this sort of thing, I have come to a theory about the general nature of the problem.

The problem is very much akin to evolution. Recreational diving continued on one evolutionary path. When tech diving became its own arena, it started a new and different evolutionary path. Consequently we have two different species with a common ancestor. PADI and most recreational agencies still see it that way, feeling that what is taught in that traditional program serves the recreational diver well, and people who want technical diving should be directed to technical diving programs.

On the other hand, many of us see an important reason to bring these supposedly tech skills into the recreational arena. I think that is going to happen eventually with or without my help, because it is starting to happen everywhere. I'm just doing my part to nudge it along.

 

[GROBIOG]

Weren't we talking about GUE/DIR? How the hell did we get to PADI? lol

 

[boulderjohn]

Weren't we talking about GUE/DIR? How the hell did we get to PADI? lol

Things like that happen in threads after post 500.

Actually, I think the idea has been there all along. DIR started very much as a technical diving concept, and then its adherents started to push those ideas into the recreational areas. Dan Volker was a big part of that push. I think that is where a lot of the current conflict arose. I think the last couple dozen posts that led us to this turn of events are among the most interesting in the thread--at least to me.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Weren't we talking about GUE/DIR? How the hell did we get to PADI? lol

Like it or not, that progression's happening in the real world. Our local GUE instructor also happens to be a PADI instructor for the region's largest chain of PADI dive shops. Not that many years ago this chain was working hard to convince their clients that they didn't need GUE-style training ... now they're hosting GUE classes and selling Halcyon gear right alongside their SeaQuest line.

Go figure ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

Like it or not, that progression's happening in the real world. Our local GUE instructor also happens to be a PADI instructor for the region's largest chain of PADI dive shops. Not that many years ago this chain was working hard to convince their clients that they didn't need GUE-style training ... now they're hosting GUE classes and selling Halcyon gear right alongside their SeaQuest line.

I just searched the web for an old Far Side cartoon that really fits here, but I couldn't find it. It shows a flock of geese walking along the ground. One of them points up to the sky to where another flock is flying by in the familiar V-formation. "Hey!" he says. "Look what those guys are doing!"

 

[GROBIOG]

... was working hard to convince their clients that they didn't need GUE-style training ... now they're hosting GUE classes and selling Halcyon...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So, GUE/DIR is taking over... yeaaaeeeeee

 

[boulderjohn]

So, GUE/DIR is taking over... yeaaaeeeeee

I think that people are recognizing that there are elements that many people associate with GUE/DIR that have a definite place in recreational scuba. For example, the course I will be teaching will have a lot in common with GUE Fundamentals, but it can be taken in standard recreational gear--with a great deal of gear counseling part of the course.

 

[Thalassamania]

That's a great start ... but it's still a challenge to develop a stable platform in the limited time allotted for confined water and checkout dives. In order to do as part of initial certification, more dives need to be added to the class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That's what I thought, but I take John at his word that it is possible. I really can't judge it since I am doing ever-so-much more in every-so-many areas that from my perspective I just don't have a good feel for what can be fit into and accomplished within the current PADI limits.

Things like that happen in threads after post 500.

Actually, I think the idea has been there all along. DIR started very much as a tnechnical diving concept, and then its adherents started to push those ideas into the recreational areas. Dan Volker was a big part of that push. I think that is where a lot of the current conflict arose. I think the last couple dozen posts that led us to this turn of events are among the most interesting in the thread--at least to me.

Your evolution concept is an interesting one, but misses a piece of the genetic history. All diver training (at least in the US) can be traced back to LA County and then back to Scripps. Buoyancy and trim were a huge part of those early courses. I can remember, in the pre-BC, pre-dry suit days when we all had a graph that charted our lead requirements vs. depth that we'd consult as part of our dive planning (On page 132 of Lee Somers' Research diver's manual : Deep Blue at the University of Michigan there is an example of such a graph). In every class I've ever taught we spend a lot of time and effort on buoyancy and trim, We use up a couple of hours of pool time determined the buoyancy of every single piece of gear, yes, down to gloves and light and knife. We make a list and based our weighting configuration on that. This stresses the importance of weighting and it works fine (if fine is dialing them in within a couple of lbs. and having them focused on the importance of proper weighting). But the point is that in the late 70s and early 80s with the advent of a bunch of "time saving" stuff (that was past off as increasing safety stuff) like the BC and the octopus, teaching buoyancy and trim went the way of teaching buddy breathing and both those items were just lopped off the schedule (now they are trying to bring buoyancy back as a separately priced product). We never lopped those items off, we still teach them. DIR identified the failings inherent in the reduced courses and reconstituted air sharing (grafted on their approach to auxiliaries and buoyancy aware S-drills,) as well as buoyancy and trim (many organisms have seen structures disappear and then had analogous structures evolve to fill the same need, e.g., fish and dolphin caudal fins).

 

[boulderjohn]

That's what I thought, but I take John at his word that it is possible. I really can't judge it since I am doing ever-so-much more in every-so-many areas that from my perspective I just don't have a good feel for what can be fit into and accomplished within the current PADI limits.

Just to be clear, I have never claimed to have achieved a fundies level of buoyancy control in any student in an OW class. I get them in reasonable trim, yes, but not the level of trim required by fundies. (Shoot--I usually have to teach OW with weight belts and jacket BCDs--not going to happen.) I get them to do skills like weight belt removal, mask removal/replacement, and BCD removal replacement while hovering in mid water during the CW portion of the class, but they are not hovering motionless in place in perfect horizontal trim for that. I believe its a far cry above what happens when students are taught overweighted on their knees, but it is by no means what we are talking about in terms of a stable platform.

I recently taught a refresher class to an experienced diver who really didn't need the class in preparation for her coming trip. I spent most of that time teaching some of the materials that would be covered in a fundies class instead of the normal refresher, and she progressed so rapidly (in her jacket BCD) that I was quite encouraged as to what can be done with a diver with a little more experience in a full workshop dedicated to that.